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- Thread starter Sk8r
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TOXIC FISH, INVERTS, WEED:
some fish when injured or sick fire back a tank-killing toxin. The BOXFISH is one, as I recall. Some have poisonous spines: RABBITFISH can produce a sting that reacts like a recluse spiderbite---I've seen half a hand turned black from it, quite nasty. Put LEATHER gloves under the plastic ones before moving rock with this guy in the tank. LIONFISH are notoriously venomous: all that finnage conceals some spines worse than a rabbitfish, and they should never be handled.
Some WEED is toxic, which is why critters won't eat it; CAULERPA is in this class---few things eat it, it has roots, and is not safe even in your fuge, because bits of it will get into the pump and up to your tank. Once it roots, even rock cooking will not get it out. Some tangs will eat it---some urchins will---rabbit fish will. BUT nothing that fits a nano tank will except maybe some exotic shellfish like a chitin...and I'm trying to research their behavior. At least you can catch them. But I don't know what they do to acrylic. Oh, and the *other* nasty trick caulerpa has: vary its lighting or have a bulb go out or try a 3-day-dark with it, and it may 'sporulate', or spawn, turning your tank to a milky white toxic soup. Water changes, carbon, and a micron filter if you have one, but get your critters all out to quarantine tanks immediately, including the inverts: there is no oxygen in such water.
Toxic inverts: myriad. CUCUMBERS have toxin, even the 'safe' ones. Some can take your tank out. LONGSPINED URCHINS, the black ones: sexy looking, but bad news for fish or reefer who gets speared. Nasty to remove, and will fester. A fish that gets seriously nailed by this may die. Many things sting: vinegar dissolves calcium carbonate spines. Hot water relieves the pain and itch. Wearing gloves is usually enough.
some fish when injured or sick fire back a tank-killing toxin. The BOXFISH is one, as I recall. Some have poisonous spines: RABBITFISH can produce a sting that reacts like a recluse spiderbite---I've seen half a hand turned black from it, quite nasty. Put LEATHER gloves under the plastic ones before moving rock with this guy in the tank. LIONFISH are notoriously venomous: all that finnage conceals some spines worse than a rabbitfish, and they should never be handled.
Some WEED is toxic, which is why critters won't eat it; CAULERPA is in this class---few things eat it, it has roots, and is not safe even in your fuge, because bits of it will get into the pump and up to your tank. Once it roots, even rock cooking will not get it out. Some tangs will eat it---some urchins will---rabbit fish will. BUT nothing that fits a nano tank will except maybe some exotic shellfish like a chitin...and I'm trying to research their behavior. At least you can catch them. But I don't know what they do to acrylic. Oh, and the *other* nasty trick caulerpa has: vary its lighting or have a bulb go out or try a 3-day-dark with it, and it may 'sporulate', or spawn, turning your tank to a milky white toxic soup. Water changes, carbon, and a micron filter if you have one, but get your critters all out to quarantine tanks immediately, including the inverts: there is no oxygen in such water.
Toxic inverts: myriad. CUCUMBERS have toxin, even the 'safe' ones. Some can take your tank out. LONGSPINED URCHINS, the black ones: sexy looking, but bad news for fish or reefer who gets speared. Nasty to remove, and will fester. A fish that gets seriously nailed by this may die. Many things sting: vinegar dissolves calcium carbonate spines. Hot water relieves the pain and itch. Wearing gloves is usually enough.
COMBOS I KNOW DON"T WORK:
do not put:
a 6 line wrasse and a dragonet in the same tank: both eat pods voraciously. The wrasse eats many things. The dragonet (mandarin, scooter blenny) needs the pods. If there aren't enough, it gets weak, and then the 6 line eats the dragonet.
a butterfly fish in a reef: they think you've served them lunch.
a butterfly fish or nippy angel with a clam: if they nip the clam, it 'blinks', and the clam will trap same fatally.
a new watchman goby in with another: fatality for one or the other. And if the resident watchman doesn't kill it, his companion shrimp may.
eels in with fish that fit their mouths. Eels eat fish. They don't care if you spend 50.00 on that fish. Nuff said.
do not put:
a 6 line wrasse and a dragonet in the same tank: both eat pods voraciously. The wrasse eats many things. The dragonet (mandarin, scooter blenny) needs the pods. If there aren't enough, it gets weak, and then the 6 line eats the dragonet.
a butterfly fish in a reef: they think you've served them lunch.
a butterfly fish or nippy angel with a clam: if they nip the clam, it 'blinks', and the clam will trap same fatally.
a new watchman goby in with another: fatality for one or the other. And if the resident watchman doesn't kill it, his companion shrimp may.
eels in with fish that fit their mouths. Eels eat fish. They don't care if you spend 50.00 on that fish. Nuff said.
WHEN CAN YOU ADD CORALS?
As soon as you've stabilized your water quality and temperature, you can start adding coral. You do not count live coral as bioload, since it is a living filter and will actually improve your water---unless something kills it, in which case it becomes dead biomass, not a good thing. As a rule, keep softies downstream of stony. Run carbon if you run softies. And you might look at the "Why I recommend mushrooms" thread, because there will be a lot of info there on what species are 'easy' and what NOT to let onto your structural rock.
As soon as you've stabilized your water quality and temperature, you can start adding coral. You do not count live coral as bioload, since it is a living filter and will actually improve your water---unless something kills it, in which case it becomes dead biomass, not a good thing. As a rule, keep softies downstream of stony. Run carbon if you run softies. And you might look at the "Why I recommend mushrooms" thread, because there will be a lot of info there on what species are 'easy' and what NOT to let onto your structural rock.
Is the Twin Spot Goby the same as the Two-Spot Goby (Signigobius biocellatus)? It's on the list of fish I want. I don't think you can keep more than one unless you're going to keep a mated pair. And I'm not really sure how much they rely on the sandbed for their food, but you may not have enough of a sandbed for two, anyway. Especially considering your clean up crew.
I would probably choose the Black & White over the Tomato clown. I don't believe a peaceful clown exists, but the B&W will be less aggressive than the tomato (probably; it all depends on the actual fish). And then add the Fridmani last.
Leslie
CLOWNS
...the most peaceful is probably the pink skunk.
...percs are tolerable---will chase anything that gets near their corner, and will claim ALL of a small tank: their range appears to be the immediate 8 gallons surrounding their nest.
...clarkiis---I had them. They wanted 20 gallons all their own, and bit me (they have teeth) ever time I wanted to maintain the tank. max size about 4".
...tomato/maroon/cinnamon...temper, temper, temper. max size about 5", and bitey. They will attack their owner's hand and arm, and one person observed a female maroon grab an encroaching fish and shove it into the anemone, fatally for the fish. I used to put my hand in my piranha tank to do maintenance (rarely, but sometimes tongs won't reach it.) Say that the piranha never bit me. A maroon clown---would have.
...the most peaceful is probably the pink skunk.
...percs are tolerable---will chase anything that gets near their corner, and will claim ALL of a small tank: their range appears to be the immediate 8 gallons surrounding their nest.
...clarkiis---I had them. They wanted 20 gallons all their own, and bit me (they have teeth) ever time I wanted to maintain the tank. max size about 4".
...tomato/maroon/cinnamon...temper, temper, temper. max size about 5", and bitey. They will attack their owner's hand and arm, and one person observed a female maroon grab an encroaching fish and shove it into the anemone, fatally for the fish. I used to put my hand in my piranha tank to do maintenance (rarely, but sometimes tongs won't reach it.) Say that the piranha never bit me. A maroon clown---would have.
"Is the Twin Spot Goby the same as the Two-Spot Goby (Signigobius biocellatus)? It's on the list of fish I want. I don't think you can keep more than one unless you're going to keep a mated pair. And I'm not really sure how much they rely on the sandbed for their food, but you may not have enough of a sandbed for two, anyway. Especially considering your clean up crew."-----
That's a very good point: gobies of the same species will fight. Often it's a lot of mouth-measuring and little biting among the tiniest of the species, but unless the larger guys go into quarantine together and go into the tank together, you may have one chewed-up fish left.
A sandsifter goby (yellow watchman) will cover about 50 gallons of bottom territory. They will often eat other things than detritus, but the diamond goby is notoriously unwilling to do so, and covers about 75g of bottom. I don't know the twinspot, but would suspect they're like the yellow watchman (ywg) in scope and behavior. And the ywg will fight a mirror...and kill a tankmate.
TO TEST AGGRESSION LEVEL: hold a mirror near the glass. If the fish you want to pair attacks the mirror---you're going to have that fight in your tank if you put another in. Do the mirror test.
That's a very good point: gobies of the same species will fight. Often it's a lot of mouth-measuring and little biting among the tiniest of the species, but unless the larger guys go into quarantine together and go into the tank together, you may have one chewed-up fish left.
A sandsifter goby (yellow watchman) will cover about 50 gallons of bottom territory. They will often eat other things than detritus, but the diamond goby is notoriously unwilling to do so, and covers about 75g of bottom. I don't know the twinspot, but would suspect they're like the yellow watchman (ywg) in scope and behavior. And the ywg will fight a mirror...and kill a tankmate.
TO TEST AGGRESSION LEVEL: hold a mirror near the glass. If the fish you want to pair attacks the mirror---you're going to have that fight in your tank if you put another in. Do the mirror test.
Sk8r - great thread, thank you. I just noticed you live in Spokane. We moved here about 3 years ago, would love to see your setup.
Here is where I'm at today:
75 Gal
20 Gal sump
~90 lbs LR
2-4 in SB
tank about 5 months old
Currently have:
4 inch Yellow Tang
Orange spotted goby
Bi-Color Angel (until I decide to bait and hook him out)
Scott's Fairy Wrasse
Bi-Color Psueodchromis
Peppermint and Cleaner Shrimp
Variety of snails and hermits
Considering:
Pair of percula clowns
and/or
3 green/blue Chromies
Or am I max'd out now? If not, any other recommendations?
I plan on adding corals down the road... I know I'll need to get rid of the angel before I do that... dreading the thought though.
Here is where I'm at today:
75 Gal
20 Gal sump
~90 lbs LR
2-4 in SB
tank about 5 months old
Currently have:
4 inch Yellow Tang
Orange spotted goby
Bi-Color Angel (until I decide to bait and hook him out)
Scott's Fairy Wrasse
Bi-Color Psueodchromis
Peppermint and Cleaner Shrimp
Variety of snails and hermits
Considering:
Pair of percula clowns
and/or
3 green/blue Chromies
Or am I max'd out now? If not, any other recommendations?
I plan on adding corals down the road... I know I'll need to get rid of the angel before I do that... dreading the thought though.
Xiaan42
New member
I am looking to add some more fish to my tank.
38G with 10G sump
Current residents:
Mixed SPS & LPS reef (with Zoos and Rics)
Clam
Shrimp (Cleaner & Pistol)
Crabs (Hermit, Porcelain & Emerald)
Snails
Watchman Goby (3" is not yellow)
Neon Goby
Occelaris Clown
Here is what I would like to get:
Royal Gramma
Pigmy Anglefish (I love this fish but I would only get one if it know it doesn't nip at my coral)
6 Line or Flasher Wrasse
If I can't get the Anglefish what other fish would be good in my system?
38G with 10G sump
Current residents:
Mixed SPS & LPS reef (with Zoos and Rics)
Clam
Shrimp (Cleaner & Pistol)
Crabs (Hermit, Porcelain & Emerald)
Snails
Watchman Goby (3" is not yellow)
Neon Goby
Occelaris Clown
Here is what I would like to get:
Royal Gramma
Pigmy Anglefish (I love this fish but I would only get one if it know it doesn't nip at my coral)
6 Line or Flasher Wrasse
If I can't get the Anglefish what other fish would be good in my system?
intenseimage
Active member
Looking to add 1 more nice fish to the clan we have already:
75g RR with 29g sump
Bermuda BC3 Skimmer
Phosban Reactor
Carbon Reactor
Lots of live sand and rock
Tank has been running since Feb (transfer from established 20g) and all tank parameters are dead on.
Current stocklist:
(2) Osc. Clowns
(5) Blue/Green Reef Chromis
Exquisite Wrasse
Kole Tang
Yellow Watchman
Diamond Goby
(3) Emerald Crabs
Bunch O Snails
Cleaner Shrimp
Peppermint Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
BTA
LPS
Zoos
Ideally it would be another Wrasse but the one we have now is a bit of a bully. A dwarf angel I would absolutely LOVE but are any reef-safe
75g RR with 29g sump
Bermuda BC3 Skimmer
Phosban Reactor
Carbon Reactor
Lots of live sand and rock
Tank has been running since Feb (transfer from established 20g) and all tank parameters are dead on.
Current stocklist:
(2) Osc. Clowns
(5) Blue/Green Reef Chromis
Exquisite Wrasse
Kole Tang
Yellow Watchman
Diamond Goby
(3) Emerald Crabs
Bunch O Snails
Cleaner Shrimp
Peppermint Shrimp
Pistol Shrimp
BTA
LPS
Zoos
Ideally it would be another Wrasse but the one we have now is a bit of a bully. A dwarf angel I would absolutely LOVE but are any reef-safe
phenom5
Member
All right, I'm going to post this question here...seems as good of a place as any. I'm a relative noob when it comes to fish.
Tank Info. 20L Topless BB. 10g sump with Euro Reef rs80. 43x turnover. 4x24 Tek Light.
Current Stock. Royal gramma, various astraea, nassarius & hitchhiker snails, a few hermits, and some micro brittle stars.
Future Stock. SPS...as many as I can fit into my little tank.
I've had the royal gramma for around 5 years now. He's always been the only fish in the tank...previously he was the lone fish in a 10g. I'd love to add another fish. I've tried a few clowns when I moved him to the 20 with no luck. He's a mean old bugger, and is pretty territorial.
I'd like to add a wrasse. Probably not a sixline. I was thinking about Filamented Flasher Wrasse, or a Multicolored Lubbock's Wrasse.
Questions.
Am I pushing it as far as tank size goes?
How would either of these fish do with in a tank with a bit of a bully gramma?
Are either of these big jumpers? (Dr F&S says they are, but I find Dr F&S's descriptions to be a bit generic at times.)
If not a wrasse, any suggestions? I'm looking for something reef-safe, and colorful, that won't try to carpet (or in my case, hardwood) surf, and that will hold it's own against the territorial gramma.
Tank Info. 20L Topless BB. 10g sump with Euro Reef rs80. 43x turnover. 4x24 Tek Light.
Current Stock. Royal gramma, various astraea, nassarius & hitchhiker snails, a few hermits, and some micro brittle stars.
Future Stock. SPS...as many as I can fit into my little tank.
I've had the royal gramma for around 5 years now. He's always been the only fish in the tank...previously he was the lone fish in a 10g. I'd love to add another fish. I've tried a few clowns when I moved him to the 20 with no luck. He's a mean old bugger, and is pretty territorial.
I'd like to add a wrasse. Probably not a sixline. I was thinking about Filamented Flasher Wrasse, or a Multicolored Lubbock's Wrasse.
Questions.
Am I pushing it as far as tank size goes?
How would either of these fish do with in a tank with a bit of a bully gramma?
Are either of these big jumpers? (Dr F&S says they are, but I find Dr F&S's descriptions to be a bit generic at times.)
If not a wrasse, any suggestions? I'm looking for something reef-safe, and colorful, that won't try to carpet (or in my case, hardwood) surf, and that will hold it's own against the territorial gramma.
Intense, you might possibly manage a mandarin, but you might have to set up a fuge if the wrasse is noshing on pods. A single firefish---the purples are most intense color. They are jumpers, so be warned. A royal gramma would hold its own in there. Just a few of a number of possibilities.
Phenom, the flashers are beautiful...the carpenter's is one of my favorites, too. I don't think you'd be pushing it with a small wrasse...but you might need to take jump precautions at first. Bird netting is good. I've observed that wrasses pretty well hold their own, so do grammas, and even (shudder) orchid dottybacks. The reason I say (shudder) is because those fish, while beautiful, are too smart to catch and they are prone to nip. I've had a yellow dottyback with a gramma and had no trouble, because the dottyback was itself at war with two damsels and the clowns. But they are tough. And if you should want it out, you would be in for it.
Jumpers---ANY fish will jump when it finds what's after it too large and the angle wrong for it to reach the bottom or the rocks. It's an escape tactic that doesn't work well in tanks. Shallow tanks mean more jumpers. So there's more chance they will in a 20L. (is that 20 liter or 20 Long?) if its 20 gallons, you could consider 2 cardinals or one blue phase bluegreen chromis---chromises are damsels, and are pretty good at escaping trouble. And always active. Also a single flasher wrasse could hold his own, I'm pretty sure.
Phenom, the flashers are beautiful...the carpenter's is one of my favorites, too. I don't think you'd be pushing it with a small wrasse...but you might need to take jump precautions at first. Bird netting is good. I've observed that wrasses pretty well hold their own, so do grammas, and even (shudder) orchid dottybacks. The reason I say (shudder) is because those fish, while beautiful, are too smart to catch and they are prone to nip. I've had a yellow dottyback with a gramma and had no trouble, because the dottyback was itself at war with two damsels and the clowns. But they are tough. And if you should want it out, you would be in for it.
Jumpers---ANY fish will jump when it finds what's after it too large and the angle wrong for it to reach the bottom or the rocks. It's an escape tactic that doesn't work well in tanks. Shallow tanks mean more jumpers. So there's more chance they will in a 20L. (is that 20 liter or 20 Long?) if its 20 gallons, you could consider 2 cardinals or one blue phase bluegreen chromis---chromises are damsels, and are pretty good at escaping trouble. And always active. Also a single flasher wrasse could hold his own, I'm pretty sure.
phenom5
Member
Thanks Sk8r. 20 Long btw, sorry for the confusion. I guess it makes sense that any fish will jump if the situation calls for it. I do not want to add anything over the tank, that would ruin the topless look...but it's a dangerous world outside of my tank...hardwoods, excessive amounts of air & a lack of water...and of course, the deadly jaws of a 9 month old chocolate lab. The Flasher wrasse would be my first choice, and I've also thought about a chromis.
Thanks again. I'm heading to the LFS today to check out some frags, so I'll have to see what they've got.
FranktheTankTx
New member
Good responses!
I think I've read multiple times that the Twin Spot Goby prefers to be kept in pairs. But, one is fine with me.
I think I changed my tune on the Fridmani... since I will keep shrimp in the tank, I may go for a Blackcap Basslet instead. My last Psuedo kept looking at my Coral Banded kind of **** eyed until they finally threw down. Psuedo won.
I haven't decided upon what shrimp... but this tank is about housing things I've never owned before. So while I have owned a Coral Banded... I have not owned a Cleaner or Fire shrimp.
As for the Clowns... I've never owned a Tomato or Black & White. Wish I could have both... but know I can't. Undecided what I'll end up doing.
So it might look something like this (in this order)...
Twin Spot Goby (1 or 2)
Blackcap Basslet (1)
Simultaneously - Clown & Flame Angel (undecided on Tomato or Black & White)
That would be a low - medium bio load on a 54g with 65g total water volume.
intenseimage
Active member
I dont want to risk a mandarin. Would the firefish be ok with 2 gobies who get a bit territorial at times (nothing major just some fin raising lol).
I do have eggcrate for the wrasse so jumpers should be OK
I Royal Gramma is definitely a possibility -- what about black cap basslets?
If I am adding smaller fish would I be able to do 2 of them instead of a single larger species like a dwarf angel?
rfd515
New member
75g RR currently cycling
29g sump/fuge
Coralife SuperSkimmer120
95lbs live sand
80ish lbs live rock
Will run carbon and phosban passively in sock filter
Stocking will begin in a few weeks with the following (in order), with each being seperated by 1 or more weeks:
1x Diamond goby
2x tank-raised clowns
1x Kole Tang
29g sump/fuge
Coralife SuperSkimmer120
95lbs live sand
80ish lbs live rock
Will run carbon and phosban passively in sock filter
Stocking will begin in a few weeks with the following (in order), with each being seperated by 1 or more weeks:
1x Diamond goby
2x tank-raised clowns
1x Kole Tang
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