PLEASE check out your intended fish purchases here first!

[lukinrats]

Sk8r... I asked a question above about what reef cleaning life would be advisable for my tank... I think I got most of the answers I was looking for, from your reply that is quoted below:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Inverts: I like plenty of bristleworms: very good with corals. They break down fish poo to a proper size for corals OR the sandbed to process, which is good. I like a lot of copepods: they eat algae and phyto, of which most tanks have a bit. I like varied worms like the spaghetti worm and the fanworms and the peanut worms: if you have a couple of those worms per 50 gallon, great. I like a moderate amount of vermetid snails and spiorbids: the crusty little spikes and curliques that fish for debris and the like; and strombus grazers, agile, maneuver on silk threads, never need rescuing and get into small places like worms. I like about 4 or so nassarius to live undersand, and a single fighting conch. I don't mind live mysis (I have quite a lot in my fuge and hope they're NOT eating too many pods); I like 4-5 turbos, same of astraeas, which I routinelyl rescue with chopsticks (they fall over and will die if not rescued). Ceriths: 10 if I can get them; maybe an emerald mithrax crab---female, preferably; and I like the micro-hermits, about 10 scarlets, about as many of other species, mostly the micro blacks. I wouldn't mind having a chiton, but since they grow up to 3 feet long, I'd sure rather have a tiny species. Urchins can be fun, but stick to the pincushions. I'd like half a dozen stomatella (cap snails): love those guys. I've had a barnacle, hitchhiker: I loved that little guy. He disappeared in a nem accident.
Creatures I refuse to let into my tank: cucumbers (toxic if injured); sea apples, sea pens, large, large snails, etc---tank crash in a small package.

Creatures I won't trust in a reef: starfish other than linkia and black and white brittle stars. THat includes chocolate chip, etc.; crabs other than emerald mithrax and a few exotics like the filter feeding crabs or anemone crabs. No sally lightfoots. They grow. And no longspine urchins: sexy-looking, beautiful, but I've seen too many unfortunate injuries to fish and owners.

Creatures I won't buy for ethical reasons and because I'm not willing to go through what it takes to keep them alive: linkia stars; basket stars; sea pens; shark eggs; horseshoe crabs.
Creatures I don't think anybody should try until they're some years at this: octopi, sharks, cuttlefish, and I'm dubious about sea fans and the like.

Creatures I have had and won't have again: a ghost eel (ate 300.00 worth of fish I loved before I caught him and got him back to the store. And they say they're hard to feed. Ha!) Clowns: I had them: the ingrates bit me everytime I had to clean and often drew blood: my last pair probably contributed to the bloodline of every clown born in Oklahoma...And Anemones. Sort of like a marauding robot when they get annoyed. I have too much coral to risk one. I love to look at them in other peoples' tanks.

That's a lot of personal opinion and nothing like universal truth about these creatures---some of which, like the basket star, are exquisite, and others of which make me smile---in somebody else's tank (clowns). If you have a passion for them, you'll study them and know what your risks and rewards are: but the ones I've cautioned on I hope you'll study carefully before you take on.

A couple of things... I saw a post somewhere in this thread, where you were naming some gobies and shrimp that "clean a whole 75 gallon bottom" or something of that nature... I am curious what these fish are, or what fish and shrimp you would suggest for 75 gallon reef

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[CraigSlice]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13102033#post13102033 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CraigSlice
75g reef tank, sumpless
octopus bh-300f skimmer
90+ pounds of LR
100 pounds of sandbad
tank 4-5 months old

Currently have:
2 O. clowns
1 blue/green Chromi
1 Lawnmower blenny
2 cleaner shrimp
CUC: 15 nass snails 15 hermits 12 astraea snails 1 fighting conch


Thinking of what fish to add next, and i think ive narrowed it down between 2: Diamond Goby or Yellow Tang
s

just reposting my tank,

but i have begun to look at the foxface lo's http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=15+1465+687&pcatid=687
after reading up on them, they do seem to be reefsafe if they are fed well, my question is, would one of these go good with my tank? id assume i would have to choose between the yellow tang (purple a little to expensive for now ) and the foxface, or could both fit? im thinking about the foxface for my next fish, but still undecided if i want one (dont want to get stung!)

Also, thanks a bunch sk8r for all your help!:rollface:

 

[lukinrats]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13097212#post13097212 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I'd recommend a yellow watchman with tiger pistol up to a diamond goby (bigtime sand movement

I think this may be the post I am thinking of... Do you have any other recommendations along these lines?

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[Sk8r]

Yes: diamond gobies. They are prodigious sand-sifters, too much for tanks under 75g. Be sure your rocks are well-set, and not just balanced on sand, but on eggcrate, preferably, or at least solidly down there. I prefer to say: hundred gallon, get a diamond. But you could probably use one in a 75 with a rich sandbed. DON'T get one too early: they'll strip the sandbed and die of starvation, because they are NOT easy to persuade to any other food. Best to let the tank age a bit before installing one, even in a big tank. The yellow, fortunately, will eat anything that floats near him: pellet, mysis---he tries with cyclopeeze, but he's so big-mouthed he can't figure out if he's gotten anything. (Cyclopeeze is very tiny,)

For a 50g and down to a 20, a yellow watchman is good, and up around 50, with a tiger pistol shrimp. The shrimp itself is quite a digger. He'll sound off occasionally: makes you wonder what he's up to, but my chromis has a ding on his head today, and I'm suspicious he got pinged: he's a silly little fish. He'll get over it.

 

[lukinrats]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118753#post13118753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Yes: diamond gobies. They are prodigious sand-sifters, too much for tanks under 75g. Be sure your rocks are well-set, and not just balanced on sand, but on eggcrate, preferably, or at least solidly down there. I prefer to say: hundred gallon, get a diamond. But you could probably use one in a 75 with a rich sandbed. DON'T get one too early: they'll strip the sandbed and die of starvation, because they are NOT easy to persuade to any other food. Best to let the tank age a bit before installing one, even in a big tank. The yellow, fortunately, will eat anything that floats near him: pellet, mysis---he tries with cyclopeeze, but he's so big-mouthed he can't figure out if he's gotten anything. (Cyclopeeze is very tiny,)

For a 50g and down to a 20, a yellow watchman is good, and up around 50, with a tiger pistol shrimp. The shrimp itself is quite a digger. He'll sound off occasionally: makes you wonder what he's up to, but my chromis has a ding on his head today, and I'm suspicious he got pinged: he's a silly little fish. He'll get over it.

So, I think that if I am understanding this right, you are telling me to get a yellow gobie and tiger pistol... Right?

My rock structure is steady, and it seems to be there... However, I would think that if you are specifically warning me about the diamond, then it can do serious damage unless my rocks are glued or something... So I will go with the yellow goby, and tiger pistol... Will there be a problem with the pistol if I already have one? Maybe, I should say that I think I have one... I hear what I think is one, all the time... It pops a lot!

Later,
Nathan

 

[Sk8r]

I'll bet if you put a yellow watchman in there he'd find that pistol shrimp.

 

[ihavtats29]

my diamond goby eats when i feed the tank( a mix of brine, squid , seeweed , and mythis) but he is the best sand mixer upper i have a watchman and pistol they donot near as well stri up the sand

 

[ihavtats29]

my diamond goby eats when i feed the tank( a mix of brine, squid , seeweed , and mythis) but he is the best sand mixer upper i have a watchman and pistol they do not near as well stir up the sand

 

[ihavtats29]

oops dbl post sorry

 

[Sk8r]

ihavtats, good info: you have a tolerably rare one in that diamond goby. Some will, which is excellent. I've also heard some have gotten the little rascals to eat by sticking frozen food undersand near their burrows. They're relatively plentiful in my lfs, and I worry about so many of them being sold, when they are not for every tank. I am particularly interested in your news about them getting along with a yellow watchman and pistol: I wouldn't have expected that. Note: ihavetats I think is referring to a 90 gallon in which this combo exists.

 

[lukinrats]

ahight... I will give it a shot then... I figured that it may need the tiger pistol, and that the tiger and whatever I have may not get along

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[ihavtats29]

yup they are in the 90 , the pistol and watchman have allways stay under just 1 rock, ive had the diamond goby for about a month now and yes he is everyware but his burrow is on the oposite end of the tank so far there have been no conflicts between the 3 , and the sand bed has never been so clean and white. best sand sifter i have ever owned.

 

[lukinrats]

What about these guys ?

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[lukinrats]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Inverts: I like plenty of bristleworms:

Where on the net might one procure some? I have always heard about these being bad, and have even seen traps dedicated to catching them... I will say that even though I have heard this, I have never tried to remove any that I have seen

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I like varied worms like the spaghetti worm and the fanworms and the peanut worms:

Same! I think that IPSF has all fo these, but is there another good place to get some?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I like a moderate amount of vermetid snails and spiorbids:

Have not seen these for sale before... Matter of fact, have never heard of them... Source?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
strombus grazers, agile, maneuver on silk threads, never need rescuing and get into small places like worms.

Would these be the same as the snails that IPSF sells?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I like about 4 or so nassarius to live undersand

I have nassarius snails, but I am not sure you would be referring to the same ones that I have... Look like whelks? Maybe mine are called Vibex

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I don't mind live mysis

How about these ... (Palaemontes Vulgaris)... Bout halfway down the page... Could they possibly be ok to put in the display?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I wouldn't mind having a chiton

How about this guy ?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13118118#post13118118 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I'd like half a dozen stomatella (cap snails):

I see a lot of info thru google search on these, but no where to buy them... Also I saw a couple of places claiming that a stromatella is a margarita snail... I have had my fair share of margaritas, and though they get around and do a good job, they seem to die in the higher temps

Thanks,
Nathan

 

[Sk8r]

Nope, a margarita is a margarita: tightly coiled shell often with mother of pearl showing in the middle like pupil of an eye. A stomatella is an almost shell-less snail with long antenna and moves fast---for a snail.

The fuzzy chiton is a good citizen. Note the size, and that chitons are big guys: not for a nano. Some species grow up to 3 feet and they look like a seagoing pillbug.

On abalone and chiton: they are not kidding about water quality, and they don't do well in high heat.

Strombus grazers spin silk like spiders and use it to rappel from rock to rock. Very small snails.

I think the mysis I have grew from eggs accidentally included in frozen mysis. They just appeared in my fuge and tank. They're not brine shrimp---act and swim more like larger shrimp. They're fishfood if a fish spots one. They love them even better live. Your palaeomontis vulgaris guys look quite nice, too.

Here are 4 sources I know for odd inverts:
inland aquatics (google)
live aquaria (one of our sponsors; topmost on the list)
reefcleaners.com
garf.org: their site is difficult to navigate to find things actually to buy, but the garf grunge is good fuge material: contains a random assortment of lots of little guys.
And I'll add a fifth: live rock and specimen rocks. Hitchhikers. I was horrified at the practice of 'cooking' good live rock until you've killed everything on it. Off mine, I had some 50-odd different forms of life that proliferated in my tank. Someone who cooked their rock would only have bacteria left. I think an interesting thing for reefer-friends who trust one another's tanks is to trade a rock...seeding your tank with what they've got and vice versa. You don't want ich or flatworms, redbug or bad nudibranchs, but live rock is an amazing easter egg of surprises that come crawling out or grow on it: sponge, worms, etc.

If you ever have an excess of bristleworms you are feeding too much. Shorten up your feeding and you'll see their numbers decline to reasonable. Rushing out to buy bristleworm traps misses the point---and besides, those poor worms are keeping your tank from crashing. Kill them, and go on with bad overfeeding---well, you get the picture.

 

[lukinrats]

Ok Sk8r... Here is what I ordered from inland aquatics

5 x baby bristle
2 x orange spaghetti worm
2 x pink spaghetti worm
6 x cap snails
4 x gammarus shrimp


and here is a screen shot of my reef cleaners.org order

Recommend anything else? I will wait for your reply before ordering from reef cleaners, but they are out of the fighting conchs.... Also, I did not see the vermatids and the other snail you mentioned @ any of those places you listed... Not sure who would have those

Anyway, thanks for your replies... It sure is nice to be able to draw from such experience

Later,
Nathan

 

[Sk8r]

You should be well-off with this crew. If your chiton or other munchers runs out of algae, offer rock-weighted sheets of nori or a scatter of spirulina, OR Formula 2 Frozen cubes. Formula 1 sinking pellet can feed whatever of that crew doesn't eat algae. Bristleworms have no jaws, just a sucking apparatus, but you'll see them heroically trying to drag a pellet away to wait for it to dissolve.

Thank you for the kind words.

You'll probably find vermetids and spiorbids as hitchhikers on rock; and others will happen from time to time--It's a lot of fun when you get a new one. Just beware of any crab that comes in that's hairy all over, or has big claws. Those are the hitchhikers best sent immediately to the sump.

Fighting conchs may be somewhat seasonal in availability, but they're not too hard to find. They're fun---sometimes you dont' see them for 3 months on end, then there they are.

 

[MisterTang]

And to my surprise I've heard good things lately about the chalk basslet, that it's quite mild-dispositioned. They're beautiful fish who look as if they have water-ripple emblazoned on their heads.

+1 on the Chalk Basslet. Mine has a very curious personality - rather like cats. After the initial "freak out" when something scares the entire tank, they will wander over and investigate when other fish are still cowering.

 

[mrozdak]

Fish

Fish

12 nano dx i am planning on getting 2 baby clowns shrimp/ goby pair some crabs snails/corals >< is this 2 much?

Oh 14 lbs of lr 12 lbs of ls

 

[Sk8r]

I'd recommend percs or pink skunk clowns---and you know they grow to 3". So you WILL be buying a 30-50 gallon tank next year. It's like that. You might as well put in a request for a birthday tank.
Something I saw today that was pretty and very nano: a pair of yellow citron gobies in a nano tank. A curious, interesting fish.

For shrimp goby, go very, very small, in the Stonogobiops family.

Your clowns will host in a mushroom quite happily. So will citron gobies. Google them. You might like them. They hang out in coral and are very colorful.

BTW and on another topic: I did check out the pipefish---peaceful, tiny mouth, don't bite; hardy, and can go in big tanks. Pretty self protective: suprisingly good with larger fish. Eat frozen mysis.

Which is another nano fish for you that can go big---I saw two in a 400g tank, that would have made hardly a gulp for their tankmates, and they were doing fine.