Please help! 1 1/2 SPS dying over night...

[Nuuze]

Hi all,

I need help trying to figure why 1 completely died and one looks half way. I swapped out my sump this weekend (Saturday) and replaced it with a new sump with refugium. Added 20 lbs. of CaribSea Arag-Alive aragonite and a handful of chaeto.

Here are my water parameters just tested:

Salinity - 35 (Refractometer)
pH - 8.2 (Red Sea, still waiting for calibration fluid for probe)
Ammonia - 0 (Red Sea)
Nitrate - 10 (Red Sea)
Nitrite - 0.05 (Red Sea)
KH/Alk - 10.9/3.89 (Salifert)
Calcium - 400 (Salifert)
Mg - 1290 (Salifert)
Phosphate - 0.03 (Salifert)
Temp - 78-81

 

[Nuuze]

Everything else seems okay at the moment...

 

[Znut Reefer]

What are you doing for water movement? Also, how long has the tank been set up?

 

[Nuuze]

Tank has been up for 2 months. Water movement are 2 Tunze 6000's on 7095 controller. I got the two frags two weeks ago. It's a 58G with 20G sump, ER CS100 skimmer, JBJ 1/10 chiller, 1 175 watt 14k with 2 75 watt VHO.

Fish:

1 - itty bitty Blue Tang 1 1/2"
2 - False Percula's 1"
1 - Cleaner Wrasse
1 - Spotted Mandarin
1 - Jennifer
1 - Randalls Gobie
2 - Firefish

 

[Znut Reefer]

Not sure but your tank is fairly new. It's usually best to start with easy acros, like monti caps, digita's until the tank is fully mature for more delicate acros. Next frags you get try the some of the easier sps first. You system sounds fine as far as equipment. But you should not have any readings on Nitrite.

You can try fragging the millie thats has RTN, but be sure to frag above the RTN into the good tissue, make sure the frag gets good water movement. And use superglue gel.

Looks like you can make at least 3 small frags. Maybe one will make it out of those three. I would let the tank mature more before adding more acros. HTH and good luck.

 

[Nuuze]

Yeah, its fairly new. I will do a water change tonight and frag the millie. So far everything else looks okay but will keep a close eye. When I set the tank up I bought all the rocks and sand from established tanks and filled the tank with RO/DI water. Weird becuase what's left of the millie still has good polyp extension and flow because I can see the polyps moving... Do you think the temp fluctuations 78-81 are too much? I have my chiller set at 80 so it does not kick on till 81 and turns off at 79. On cooler nights it sometimes drop to 78.

 

[Nuuze]

Yeah, its fairly new. I will do a water change tonight and frag the millie. So far everything else looks okay but will keep a close eye. When I set the tank up I bought all the rocks and sand from established tanks and filled the tank with RO/DI water. Weird becuase what's left of the millie still has good polyp extension and flow because I can see the polyps moving... Do you think the temp fluctuations 78-81 are too much? I have my chiller set at 80 so it does not kick on till 81 and turns off at 79. On cooler nights it sometimes drop to 78.

 

[Znut Reefer]

I wouldn't do the waterchange unless you need to. Just frag the millie tonight. And plan to do a waterchange when you have it planned.

Thats good that you used established rock, that does help age a tank. So you should be fine, just get that nitrite to zero, it should drop on it's own, but watch it so it does not rise.

As far as your temps, thats fine so long as it does it gradually...

I have seen acros with RTN to have full polyp extension, but frag it or you'll lose it for sure.

Your tank is looking good.

 

[Nuuze]

I been keeping a tank log:

Nitrite has always been lurking there. Is there anything I can do to lower it or get rid of it? I have a PhosBan reactor coming with PhosBan media to help rid the Phosphate.

 

[Znut Reefer]

No not really, it will drop eventually on it's own as the tank matures. Just do regular water changes, and keep a log on all water parameters. You'll see it goes away in time.

Remember to go slow with the Phosban, use a very small amount to start. Keep an eye on the alk. I would keep the alk at NSW levels of 8-9. So yours is alittle high.

 

[Nuuze]

Okay. Will the PhosBan raise or lower Alk? I been adding calcium and magnesium until I got it to the recommended levels and dripped kalk after to maintain. What causes the Alk to go up and down the way it does in my tank? Also how much PhosBan should I add to begin with? Thanks for all your help.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8310345#post8310345 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by znut Reefer
No not really, it will drop eventually on it's own as the tank matures. Just do regular water changes, and keep a log on all water parameters. You'll see it goes away in time.

Remember to go slow with the Phosban, use a very small amount to start. Keep an eye on the alk. I would keep the alk at NSW levels of 8-9. So yours is alittle high.

 

[Znut Reefer]

It will lower the alk if too much is added at once. Alk goes up and down in all systems if not held steady with a Ca reactor. Your tank is 58 gals right? I'd start with 3 tablespoons, wait add more in a couple weeks. Read what others are doing. Or post it to get answers. I'm not using a Phos reactor, so you need to talk to someone who is. I just know to go slow, you can also read Randy's article on it, or post in the chemistry forum.

You are welcome.

 

[Serioussnaps]

You really shouldnt have anything in your tank if you have nitrites. That means at some point there was ammonia as well...that just cant be good and i am actually surprised that all your other stuff isnt dead as well.

---you can detoxify nitrites via a product from Seachem called PRIME

nitrite will effect your fish alot more than your coral as it will inhibit oxygen uptake from their blood.. i would dose with prime now


EXPECT TO SEE YOUR ACROS COMPLETELY DIE...PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU PUT THE GFO VIA PHOSBAN REACTOR ON THERE!!!!!!!!

start the gfo at about 1g/gallon but even then it will likely shock your acros by dropping ALK in short order as well as a temporary(couple of days) drop in PH

YOU ALSO NEED TO CHECK THAT NITRITE TEST KIT(WHAT BRAND ARE YOU USING?) that doesnt sound right particularly seeing that you already have a blue regal that doesnt looked iched up which usually happens in subpar WQ

SLOW DOWN AND DONT ADD ANY MORE LIVESTOCK TO YOUR TANK





now for my word of praise for you:

HE HAS PLENTY OF FLOW ...nice setup all around

GREAT JOB ON THE LOG...I HAVE GOT A LITTLE SLACK ON MINE AND I JUST KEEP IT FOR THE WEEK AS THATS REALLY ONLY WHAT MATTERS BUT KEEP IT UP!!!!!!!

 

[blide]

Yes, do some water changes and don't add anything else to your tank. From you log you have had Ammonia, Nitrite's, and Phosphates higher than they should ever be and that's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Nuuze]

I will look up Seachem Prime at my LFS. So far nothing fatal with the fish I have. (knock on wood) I had most of them for over a month now, most of the swim back and fourth against the current all the long. Should I hold off on running Phos-Ban media for the time being until I get my levels down? Maybe run carbon instead? I am using Red Sea kit for my Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite. Salifert for the rest. I'll see if my LFS has Salifer Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8312712#post8312712 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Serioussnaps
You really shouldnt have anything in your tank if you have nitrites. That means at some point there was ammonia as well...that just cant be good and i am actually surprised that all your other stuff isnt dead as well.

---you can detoxify nitrites via a product from Seachem called PRIME

nitrite will effect your fish alot more than your coral as it will inhibit oxygen uptake from their blood.. i would dose with prime now


EXPECT TO SEE YOUR ACROS COMPLETELY DIE...PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU PUT THE GFO VIA PHOSBAN REACTOR ON THERE!!!!!!!!

start the gfo at about 1g/gallon but even then it will likely shock your acros by dropping ALK in short order as well as a temporary(couple of days) drop in PH

YOU ALSO NEED TO CHECK THAT NITRITE TEST KIT(WHAT BRAND ARE YOU USING?) that doesnt sound right particularly seeing that you already have a blue regal that doesnt looked iched up which usually happens in subpar WQ

SLOW DOWN AND DONT ADD ANY MORE LIVESTOCK TO YOUR TANK





now for my word of praise for you:

HE HAS PLENTY OF FLOW ...nice setup all around

GREAT JOB ON THE LOG...I HAVE GOT A LITTLE SLACK ON MINE AND I JUST KEEP IT FOR THE WEEK AS THATS REALLY ONLY WHAT MATTERS BUT KEEP IT UP!!!!!!!

 

[prance1520]

Wow Serioussnaps, those caps are killer. Easy on that shift key buddy, I'm sure he'd understand it even if it was lowercase.

Anytime I've seen outbreaks of RTN in tanks its been because of two things. Large temps swings or changes in salt.

Seems like you have the temp pretty much under control, but are you sure something didn't go out of whack for a little bit? It only takes a 4 degree swing over a couple hours to send a SPS down that road.

Changed your salt at all? That'd be another guess?

You've gotten good advice so far, the system is still pretty young. Hold off on anything else for a bit. Watch your N03 and N02 levels and make sure you don't see any Ammonia come back.

If I were you, I'd run the phosban for an hour or two a day, increasing an hour every couple days. That should limit the shock of completely rocking out your phosphate in a day or so.

If your going for a while longer (a couple more months) and still don't see much in terms of nitrates and nitrites going down, start doing research into bacteria cultures and bacteria foods. Zeovit, ultralith, and prodibio are the big players in the game. Its still a young concept, but it seems to be catching on.

PS. Stick with Salifert kits.

Good luck.

Matt

 

[Nuuze]

Temps may have fluctuated a bit when I swapped out my sump Saturday. My chiller is currently set at 80; so it kicks on at 81 and turns off at 79. But on the cooler nights it may go down to 78 since my heater turns on at 78.5. Should I make the temp swing less? I been using the same salt, Instant Ocean, 35 on the refractometer

Good idea on the slow acclimation of the Phos-Ban. I knew I should of tossed the Red Sea test kits when I compared the Alk test with Salifert. It was way off!

Zeovit, ultralith, and prodibio? Never heard of them but will look it up. Hopefully my new Refugium will help some with the levels. By the way here's a pic of it...

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8313807#post8313807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by prance1520
Wow Serioussnaps, those caps are killer. Easy on that shift key buddy, I'm sure he'd understand it even if it was lowercase.

Anytime I've seen outbreaks of RTN in tanks its been because of two things. Large temps swings or changes in salt.

Seems like you have the temp pretty much under control, but are you sure something didn't go out of whack for a little bit? It only takes a 4 degree swing over a couple hours to send a SPS down that road.

Changed your salt at all? That'd be another guess?

You've gotten good advice so far, the system is still pretty young. Hold off on anything else for a bit. Watch your N03 and N02 levels and make sure you don't see any Ammonia come back.

If I were you, I'd run the phosban for an hour or two a day, increasing an hour every couple days. That should limit the shock of completely rocking out your phosphate in a day or so.

If your going for a while longer (a couple more months) and still don't see much in terms of nitrates and nitrites going down, start doing research into bacteria cultures and bacteria foods. Zeovit, ultralith, and prodibio are the big players in the game. Its still a young concept, but it seems to be catching on.

PS. Stick with Salifert kits.

Good luck.

Matt

 

[slojmn]

Anybody else notice the swings in Alk???? Pretty serious swings over the past month. I'd look to that as a culprit as well. Alk is a killer to sps if it fluctuates to much. My temp is in the same exact range as yours and things seem fine in my tank. When my alk was jumping around I had STN which is really what is happening to that milli.

Your tank looks really nice, I like the mixed reef look. Just slow way down. 2 months with all that livestock is way to fast in my opinion. Glad to hear the fishies are well and most of your lps look really nice. Let things get settled for a few months before throwing more life in there. Good Luck and keep us informed of progress.

 

[clkwrk]

I agree Alk swings are #1 killer IMO also I recommend near NSW levels

 

[Nuuze]

slojmn,

I too noticed the Alk swings. I added calcium and magnesium until recommended levels were reached and maybe drip kalk a couple mights a week. Would the kalk make Alk jump like that?