Please help, fish getting worse.

[gotfrogs]

I had several reef fish (clowns, cardinals, angels, tangs, hawkfish, assessor and butterflyfish) in my 10 year old 120 gallon reef tank that were all doing well. About 2.5 weeks ago I added a hippo tang that I got from a reliable friend but within days of adding it to my tank it broke out in ich.

A few days later with the tang not getting better and the appearance of very small white dots on some of the other fish, I decided to break down the tank to remove all of the fish. I moved all of them over to a 58 gallon tank that had nothing but some live rock and a fresh sand bed (tank was about a month old). I failed to get one of the Banggai cardinals out of the 120 gallon tank (was hiding and did not notice him until all of the live rock was back in the tank) and left the hippo tang in the sump of the 120. I did not want to treat him with the other because of his size (additional bio load), level of infection, and lack of emotional tie to the new fish.

The other fish that I moved over to the 58 seemed to do well at first but I initiated a hyposalinity treatment over the course of about a week (current SG is 1.011) but about 4 days ago I notice many of the fish had fin rot and poor colors. After much internet searching I decided to treat them with Triple Sulfa Antibiotics. The first treatment was applied 12/24 and then a second treatment was applied yesterday 12/25 by a family member (I had to travel on christmas). Today I returned home and their condition has gotten worse.

What should I do? The fish are still eating but I don't think the Triple Sulfa is working and would like to use another treatment that I can apply while the fish are still under hypo conditions.

Thanks in advance for any recomendations. If you can help me save my Regal Angle I will be extremely grateful!

 

[Outerbank]

Did the hippo die?
Any other symptoms?
For now, drop the salinity to 1.009 and give the fish a freshwater bath.

 

[gotfrogs]

Current (12/26/14 @ 5:44 PM) tank parameters are:
temp 77.5
SG 1.012
pH 8.1
Ammonia yellow on badge (<.02ppm)
Nitrite 9.87ppb

 

[gotfrogs]

The hippo is still in the sump of my 120 at full salinity. The lighting is not good but and I have not spent the time to look close to see if he has signs of ich and fin rot. He is eating and appears to be doing better than the others.

 

[gotfrogs]

Should I continue with the triple sulfa? Instructions call for 4 days of treatment and today would be #3 but I have not done a water change yet or added the antibiotics.

 

[Outerbank]

Are the fish looking better? If not, stop the antibiotics. If they look better, continue the recommended full antibiotic treatment.

 

[gotfrogs]

I did a water change last night and applied the 3rd dose of antibiotics. This morning the fish look worse so I have added activated carbon and plan on not applying the 4th application of Triple Sulfa. I will do another water change this afternoon.

Is there a different antibiotic or fungus treatment I should apply for the fin rot?

 

[gotfrogs]

Here are two videos of the fish that I took this morning. They look worse in person.

First YouTube Video
Second YouTube Video

 

[snorvich]

Please read this. Diagnosing visibly is unreliable but the combination of behavior and appearance will usually give you a pretty good idea. And by the way, there is no such thing as a "reliable friend". If you did not quarantine, assume the fish has a parasite.

 

[snorvich]

Hyposalinity is 1.008/1.009 measured with a calibrated refractometer. Anything above that will be ineffective at best. However there are strains of ich that are resistant to hyposalinity. Best treatment for ich is tank transfer but it will only work with ich not with velvet or other parasites. A fresh water dip will alleviate symptoms of velvet, brook, but have no use for treating ich. For treatment of parasites, please read the stickies in this forum.

 

[gotfrogs]

Snorvich - Thanks for all of your replies. I have reviewed the diagnosis of symptoms sticky several time and am still unsure what my problem(s) are. As for your statement about no such thing as a "reliable friend", lesson learned!!

Does any one disease/parasite stand out that could cause a rapid loss of fins, heavy breathing, pale coloration, cloudy eye and not respond to Triple Sulfa treatment? Here is a picture of the tail fin of my Regal Angle. It was normal just a week ago.

Seems like a 4 minute fresh water dip would assist in the treatment of many of the common causes of my symptoms. I will conduct a 4 min freshwater dip and lower the tank salinity to 1.009.

 

[snorvich]

Velvet would be first choice given symptoms. Fish with velvet also tend to be reclusive and tend towards areas where water is returned to the tank. A fresh water dip does provide temporary relief but not cure of velvet. We have a sticky for treatment in the Fish Parasites sticky.

 

[gotfrogs]

I have ordered some chloroquine phosphate but it will not be here until Tuesday. I don't have much hope for the angels but hopefully I can save the others.

 

[snorvich]

I have ordered some chloroquine phosphate but it will not be here until Tuesday. I don't have much hope for the angels but hopefully I can save the others.

Remember that a fresh water dip provides relief, especially if the fish is returned to salt water that is not infected.

 

[gotfrogs]

I treated one of the clowns and the potters with a 4.5 minute freshwater dip. I matched the pH and temperature. The clown took it well but it killed the potters angle.

Not a good day =(

 

[gotfrogs]

In an attempt to try and help figure out what is going on, I cut open the Potters Angel. I did not to a thorough inspection but did find this small red worm alive inside of him.

 

[tylersarah]

A few things:
-The hippo will need to be treated as well and the main tank/sump left fallow to allow the parasites to die off.
-Bio Spira is a great product for adding nitrifying bacteria to the QT which will help with bio-load and keep ammonia/nitrite low.
-My guess is either flukes or velvet, leaning a bit more towards flukes. You can fw dip a fish in a dark container, then look for white specks to aid in confirming flukes. If you find the specks I would then treat the QT for flukes.

Do the fish have a dusty appearance? Or rather a dusty golden appearance? This would indicate velvet. Copper is also a very effective treatment for velvet & easily sourced. Lastly, you should remove the sand/live rock before using copper because it tends to absorb/bond compromising the therapeutic level.

Fish tolerate fw dips differently, depending on level of infection (number of parasites in gills) and species. My general fw dip protocol:
Match temp + pH
Aerate for 10-30 mins prior to entry
Keep fish in long as possible before fish lists to the side the 2nd time. After 1st time gently prod with finger to revive and watch for the 2nd indicating it's time to remove from the dip. Some fish don't list at all or try to jump out and a dip can last a good 15 mins. For velvet/flukes a 30 second fw dip is better than none at all because it will remove some parasites from the gills.

Additionally, hyposalinity is only useful for ich, so unless you think they have ich, I would slowly bring them back up to 1.025 to properly administer other treatments. This can be done with a hypertonic saltwater drip into the tank, you can also drip out to prevent it from overflowing. The safe rule is .001/.002 increase in salinity per day, but I have done it faster with the drip with no issue taking a break for 5 hours or so every .005. Never administer copper while fish are in hyposalinity.

 

[gotfrogs]

I still feel that they have a bacteria infection that was not impacted by the triple sulfa.

Point taken about the hippo tang (and Cardinal that is still in the main display).

 

[tylersarah]

Secondary infections are common with parasites. Typically with bacterial infections you will see redness/streaking/raised scales. With that said, right now it is more important to provide treatment to kill the parasites that are causing the fish to breath heavily & note that the fins are torn up because of the parasites.

Are they all eating?

 

[gotfrogs]

Thanks for the reply I plan on keeping the tank hypo for now (increasing the salinity can be stressful I am not 100% sure they are ich free and it looks like the treatments I am looking at are compatible with it). The regal stopped eating 12/25 but the others are still eating well.
A member of my local fish forum recommended that I treat the fish with PraziPro. I have chloroquine phosphate on order which should be here on Tuesday but don't know it's the two can be used together.
Thoughts about treating with PraziPro today?