Please help, fish getting worse.

Basically, you need to pick which parasite you think they most likely have, treat and see if they improve. Dose the tank with PraziPro today, see if they improve overnight, if not, begin raising salinity in preparation for CP Tuesday. If their conditions go south in the meantime (heavy breathing/not eating like the angel) you can hold them over with daily fw dips until you treat with copper or CP. Sometimes the quality of CP can be questionable, if you rule out flukes, treat with copper or CP. If you don't figure it out they will all perish down the same path as the angel.
 
I am getting the chloroquine phosphate from a retail pharmacy so I am not concerned about the quality of what I am getting. Unfortunately I am not having luck finding the PraziPro locally. Petco and Petsmart did not have it. I will call my local fish store when they open at noon. Hopefully they will have it.
 
It is unlikely the fish have a significant fluke infection if you did not see any flukes in the FW dip bowl. Sulfa drugs are good broad spectrum antibiotics, so the fin rot issue is not likely from a significant bacterial infection. It is bad to use or treat the fish for things that are not the primary pathogens. That leaves the most likely primary infective organisms as velvet and/or ich and/or one of the lesser occurring diseases. You can see the parasites on the potters angel. FW and/or formalin baths are likely your best treatments at this time. Start bringing the tank water back up towards normal saline. You can start treatment with copper or CP when salinity is safe, but I am not sure what salinity is recommended to start these treatments. You may have internal parasites too, but they are not likely the killing organism (thus you can treat them later). Remember, it is possible to have more than one deadly infecting agent.
 
Im pretty sure they are 1-2 mm and look somewhat like planaria or acropora eating flatworms. They are supposed to be visible on the bottom of a bowl after a FW bath. I always FW bath now in a large dark blue mixing container so I can inspect anything that falls off. I would think if flukes killed the potters angel, then many should have fallen off in the bath.
 
Perform another fw dip on a fish to look for flukes. Make sure there's not any sand in the bottom of the container etc. The dip will only help them breath easier even if you don't find flukes.
 
I did my first 1 minute 20 second dip with the Regal and 4 minutes with one of the clowns. The Regal had a hard time with it laid on his side and did not move at all other than attempting to jump out twice. The clown did fine but also looks much better. I went ahead and applied 15ml of PraziPro and removed the carbon from the tank. Just a few minutes later I saw a ~ 2" thin white filament hanging from the vent of the yellow tang. Not sure if it is related but I guess it could be a worm trying to escape the poison.

Here is a photo of the water after the FW dip. The Regal Angel shed some white material for sure but I have no idea if it is flukes.
Photo of FW dip after use
 
The fish seem a little better today. The regal angel still looks really bad but is now swimming around the tank and mouthing food (spitting it out). He has developed a fungus looking poof on one of his side fins and has read streaks in what is left of his tail fin. His overall health seems better though.

I did a 25 gallon water change this morning and added 5 more ml of the PraziPro. Salinity is still at 1.009.
 
If flukes were the culprit you should see nearly a snow globe effect in the fw dip, what you saw was probably worms, but not the disease of concern.

Does the regal or any of the fish suddenly look skinny or pinched? The red streaking in the tail is a sign of a systemic infection, you will likely need an antibiotic for treatment - erythromycin or kanamycin are good choices and antibiotics are best administered when fed.

Are any of the fish breathing heavily? More details regarding change in behavior/appearance always helps.

I highly urge you to begin exiting hypo so that you can properly treat the fish with meds. If it's not flukes, it has to be velvet or ich, CP or copper will treat both.
 
Here is a video of the fish that I just took a few minutes ago. Everyone seems much better after the ParaziPro treatment. On my local reef forum the consensus seems to be that they do not have velvet because the fish would have already been killed by now. What are your thoughts?

Most of the fish look very healthy and all are eating with the exception of the following:

Regal Angel
- Still seems a little bloated
- Seems to be swimming tilted to one side (not 100% upright)
- Large white fungus looking mass on left fin.
- Has some loose white material on body (not ich)
- Fins are still in really bad shape, red marks from yesterday are gone

One of the Naked clowns
- Has two silver blotches one side. Very minor

Copper Banded Butterfly
- Small white specs on/in end of back tail. I am not sure if this is just the texture of his tail. I can't recall them ever NOT being there.

Link to 12-30-14 Video
 
Does anyone have any detailed instruction on administering antibiotics orally with food, specifically chloromycetin (chloramphenicol)? I am really not finding any useful information. The only thing I have found is this and this.
 
Or perhaps they have ich and the hyposalinity is now working. Do you know anyone that can look at a sample under a microscope?

The angel is swimming on an angle due to the mass on the fin, the bloat is concerning, could be an internal bacterial issue or worms - have you witnessed the poop? They are not behaving like fish with velvet - for the record fish don't necessarily drop dead overnight when infected with velvet.

Chloromycetin is not in my fish disease resource books.

When I feed antibiotics (Kanamycin, Erythromycin, Doxycycline), I use Seachem's Focus as a binding agent, it comes with a little spoon and I blend one spoonful of antibiotic with 2-3 of Focus and mix with thawed seafood. Then refreeze and feed a small quantity 3x/day for 10-14 days. I don't know how potent Chloromycetin is in comparison.
 
Last edited:
I have access to a microscope, how would i take/prep a sample?

I have not seen any of them poop recently. Is there something in particular that I should be looking for or doing?

Based on the video from today would you still recommend that my next treatment be erythromycin or kanamycin administered orally?

I got the CP today but have not decided if I am going to administer or not. I do plan on maintaining the hypo for the near term future though.
CP_Tablets.png
 
gotfrogs said:
I have access to a microscope, how would i take/prep a sample?
The issue here is recognizing a parasite, hard to tell a cell from a cilia if you don't know what you're looking for.
I have not seen any of them poop recently. Is there something in particular that I should be looking for or doing?
If the angel has feces that resembles worms, that would explain the bloating, otherwise it's likely an internal bacterial issue

Based on the video from today would you still recommend that my next treatment be erythromycin or kanamycin administered orally?
I don't think any of the fish currently need antibiotics except possibly the angel

I got the CP today but have not decided if I am going to administer or not. I do plan on maintaining the hypo for the near term future though.
Stick with the hypo for awhile then, that should reveal whether you're dealing with ich, which seems like a good possibility. The problem is if you realize it's something else and in turn can't treat appropriately because of hyposalinity.
Click to expand...
 
It works well, normally I don't like miracle in a bottle products, but it has its purpose when in need. And obviously you don't want to do a w/c immediately, so use Amquel, if needed.

Once I had to set up an emergency bare bottom 20 gal QT for a 3" fish, I used a whole bottle as it stated and never had an ammonia/nitrite spike and the fish made it through QT with ease. You have a larger bio-load, but you also have live rock in the tank, so the Bio Spira should be enough of a boost to get the bacteria population in check. Try to feed lightly during QT.

I've also used Bio Spira in QT when using medications that affect the bio-filter, worked well for those occasions too.
 
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