please help me with my longnose butterfly

rishma

New member
I have had my Forcipiger flavissimus for several months, purchased from DD. The fish has lost weight. It is not fully emaciated yet, but not healthy. I quanteened him with prazi for 2 weeks before introducing him.

I noticed he had lost weight and last month and I quanteened him again with Prazi for 2 weeks. he ate well in quanteen, and I thought he was starting to plump up again, but it could have been my imagination.

The fish aggressively goes for mysis shrimp and brine and will consume small pieces of table shrimp. The PE Mysis are too large, though he tries to eat them. He is successful consuming "baby" mysis, I believe they are Hikari or H2O brand.

I am considering getting frozen blood worms but I am concerned there is a parasite that I was unable to treat. My other fish are fat.

your assistance would be appreciated.
 
Bloodworms aren't really worms. They're insect larvae with endoskeletons that are harder to digest.

Live blackworms would be better if you can find them. Many LFSs sell them. Also, you could chop the PE mysis (in a blender) so he could eat it better. You also might try soaking his food in selcon or some other vitamin supplement.

Is he having trouble competing for food in your display?
 
Id agree with chopping up the mysis or just feeding smaller mysis, which the hikari IME is much smaller. Maybe keep him in the quarantine for a more extended period of time than 2 weeks, and make sure hes good and fat before you introduce him. How often are you feeding your tank? I would say a longnose would benefit from multiple small feedings a day.
 
I appreciate the replies.

robin - thanks for the tip on bloodworms. I'll see about live blackworms, though I dont think they are available locally. Competition during feeding is a concern, but I think he is getting enough food. Every other fish is downright fat.

DustyReefer - I feed multiple times a day. I think I feed pretty heavily and my home made blend has selcon, etc. I could try a quanteen again, but my schedule has me home for 2 weeks, gone for 2 weeks, home again for 2 weeks. I'd prefer not to have him in quaranteen while I am gone because my wife would have to change water, etc.

I think I have read that prazi for 2 weeks should be sufficient to treat parasites. I dont see any stringy excrement or other signs of worms, just loss of weight.

Other thoughts?
 
What do you mean PraziPro for 2 weeks? Each dose only lasts for 4 or 5 days, so you would need 3 doses during your 2 week period. 2 doses back to back should be plenty.

In addition to your chopped table shrimp, I would feed chopped scallop and clam (also fresh from your grocery store) and chopped salmon. If you want to feed the yln more, use a turkey baster to squirt food at its nose. You also can build a feeder by drilling holes in a capped tube or piece of pvc, put food in, and put it in the tank where the yln hangs out. Tie a piece of fishing line on to retrieve the feeder easily. The.holes should be just big enough for the yln's snout but too small for your other fish.

Any chance the yln will eat NLS pellets or ON gel food?
 
I've had one of these fish thriving in my tank for years. In fact, I think it has pretty much reached full size. I think the main reason for this is that it eats flake food.

The problem I see with this fish is that it goes after food aggressively, but is highly inaccurate with its beak. It's almost comical to watch it stabbing away at floating food and missing 90% of the time. Generally, it is only successul in targeting the food once it has sunk to the bottom or become lodged in a rock. This species evolved into specialized feeders that are able to probe very small holes and crevices for food items that other fish can't get to. If it is surrounded by "fat" aggresive tankmates, not much food is going to find its way into these places. You were probably right about the fish doing better on it's own.

While the shrimp might be a more natural diet, flake food has a much higher concentration of protien and nutrients. Therefore, the fish doesn't have to consume as much to be healthy. Certain brands of flake food are packaged as huge flakes, so if the fish can grab just one of those, it's going to get a pretty good sized serving. Plus the big flakes are much easier to target. Their snouts are not designed to eat big chunks of shrimp, but the flakes get so soft and flexible after they are soaked, they can suck of big pieces, kind of like they're using a straw.

Ocean Nutrition is my preferred brand. It is vitamin enriched, has a high percentage of protien, and a wide variety of natural ingredients. I alternate between Formula 1, Formula 2, and Prime Reef. Each has a slightly different composition and my Yellow Longnose loves all 3. The bigger container you buy, the bigger the flakes you get, so shop accordingly. Do not break up the flakes up before putting them in the tank. Even small fish can pick them apart if need be. Always re-stock before the container gets to the bottom where the flakes are all crushed up.

The "don't feed them more than they can eat in 3 minutes" rule should probably go out out the window as well. Obviously you shouldn't go too far overbaord, but you also need to keep in mind that the specialized beak can keep picking up leftovers long after the other fish have lost interest. Mine is constantly pecking and grazing, even at night when the rest of the fish are dormant. For that reason, it's also not a bad idea to throw in a small pinch after lights out.

Another suggestion I would make is to stop treating your fish for parisites unless you're pretty sure they have parasites. Anything that kills parasites can't be good for other forms of life either. That type of fish has clear fins, so any external parasites are going to be obvious. And if it's still feeding aggressively, it probably doesn't have any internal bugs either. A healthy, well-fed fish can usually shake off most parisites, and over time, develop some resistance to them. I've seen a few white specks on my fish from time to time, but I never worry about it too much, and so far it's always cleared up fairly quickly. The Yellow even had a pretty good sized isopod or something attached to its fin a while back, but that thing had dissappeared by the next day.

Quarrantine doesn't mean you have to soak your fish in a bath of chemicals. The main benefit is isolation from stress and competition while acclimating or recovering. If a fish is feeding well and shows no signs of disease, there is no reason to treat it for anything. Besides all that, I've found that whenever a fish develops a really serious internal disease, no amount of treatment is going to save it.

If your fish is still feeding agressively, then I don't think you have too much to worry about. All you have to do is figure out a way to get it enough nourishment. That fish gets pretty big, so it will need to consume a massive amount of those baby shrimp in order to grow properly and maintain its weight. I would put it back in quarrantine until it starts to fatten up a little. If you have decent filtration, and dont treat the water this time, you should be able to go at least 2 weeks without changing the water. Use water from your main tank, and you shouldn't have to worry about it cycling. That way you can experiment with different foods until you find something that provides the best odds of keeping it well fed amongst its tankmates. If it won't eat flakes, there are other options.

I hope this helps. Please reply if you have further questions.
 
Frank - Thanks for the reply. I did re-dose as directed with the Prazi. 2 doses back to back plus a few extra days. I like the feeder idea a lot. I am going to give that a try. he does spend most of the day picking tiny holes in the rocks.

Easy E - Wow, that must be the best first post ever. Welcome to reefcentral. I have ocean nutrition flake, but the butterfly wont take it yet. Ideally, I'd like to get the butterfly on pellets like my other fish. I'll keep trying.

I also feed in the morning when most of the fish are resting and the current is turned down. The butterfly does well catching food during this time.

I dont agree with your comments about not treating for internal parasites. Butterflies are prone to intestinal worms, which was one possible cause of the weight loss. I may have been incorrect this time, but I would not introduce any fish without a proactive intestinal worm treatment. It is a very common issue and Prazi is a medication with very few side affects. As for external parasites, I agree. I always observe in QT and decide on a case by case basis.

Thank you very much for your thoughtful reply.
 
I would try feeding clams on a half shell, if you have cleaner shrimp they may go after them but it may still be worth a shot. I've never lost a CBB due to starvation before and they have similar mouths. Clams on the half shell are my secret for both getting them eating other foods and plumping them up.

You can do 1-2 a day at first, but they're very messy and will pollute the tank so I suggest cutting back once you're happy with the condition of the fish.
 
Now that you've medicated the fish just make sure he is getting enough food.
When I get new butterfly fish I'm literally putting small amounts of food in the tank every time I walk by it. I feed once in the morning and 3+ times after work if possible, and on the weekends I feed more than 5 times if possible. Like others have said chop up PE mysis, shrimp, scallop, clam and any other healthy food. Most of my fish will not accept dry goods and they are plenty fat from a variety of frozen foods . If you can see your fish eating a significant portion of food then it should slowly gain weight as long as you feed often. You can also try to email DD and see what they suggest. Good luck!
 
I feed my fish bloodworms every 2-3 days. My fish goes most aggressively feeding on bloodworms. More so than pellets, flakes, pe/mysis. This is a tank full of angels/tangs.

I think bloodworms are perfectly fine as a secondary meal or to get the fish feeding.
 
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