Please help the new guy

tkdwoody

New member
Hello,
I attended and joined the last meeting. It was very cool however the lecture was a little over my head. I will sadly be unable to attend the next meeting because of my daughter's 1st birthday.

Here is my problem:

Setup:
34 gallon solana w/ 2 inches of sugar sand covered by 2inches of live sand from caribsea, 40lbs live rock, two masxi 600's and one koralia nano for circulation
Lights 150 watt metal halide, blue/uv actinic
sump-ten gallon hex tank w/ 3 inches of crushed coral covered by two inces of mud from an established tank then covered with sugar sand. A gravity flow with a 1200maxi jet handles the circulation
The tank has been up and running since 12/26/07. The sump has been up since 1/20/08.


Problems with fish store
I have been going through the fish store and have probably dropped about 1500 dollars.
3 weeks ago I went to the store w/ 2 dead snails. The store said my salinity was too high and that I need to get it down. Once I got it to 1.024 he said I was ready (4 days later) He said to start w/ cleaner shrimp and they do best when you have more than once. I put two shrimp in the tank. They seemed to do fine so I went back a few days later and asked if I could put anything else in. He said and I quote "I don't have anything in this store that your system can't handle" I bought the following
Orange and white starfish-40
Reef Lobster-70
Pacific LT anenome 50
Metallic Green Star polyps-70
Neon Green Zooanthids-60
I did not know any better. He said they would all do fine.

The starfish died the next day, followed by the lobster the day after that. The zoos developed a mucous after 3 days and then started to rot. The anenome never opened or found a spot he liked. The star polyps also never opened.
So there I was I killed all of them and the ones that remained didn't seem healthy

I changed fish stores and am now having someone from Wet Pets in Vernon come to my house to service my tank and teach me how do things. The guy from the prev. store only told me to add this, don't add that, test this etc. I need to know and understand the why's because I want to do it myself.

I noticed a very strong smell of cat urine coming from my tank. The odor was incredibly strong on the pieces of live rock. I don't have a cat and the ammonia is testing fine. I've also noticed a bright green growth on the live rock whatever it is it is hard and not a slime or anything. Photo below!



I placed the two survivors in a bucket w/ clean water a heater and a pump. They seemed to do fine for a couple of days when FEDCOPMIKE came by and took them to put in his tank. He said that I may want to add a fish to cycle the tank and that the green could be a green coralline algae.

What happened to my tank? Did it not originally cycle? The guy from wet pets has performed every possible test and says that it's fine. I'm at a loss. I teach SCUBA and have wanted a reef tank for years. I want to make a go of this and not sell it but at what point do I cut my losses. Now i pay a weekly maintenance fee! I feel like i've gone over my head.
showphoto.php
 
Welcome to the club and welcome to ReefCentral! The tank should have cycled since you set it up on 12/26, but it may be going through an additional cycle with all the mortality (large die-offs can create an ammonia spike).

The first thing I would do is the cycle chemical tests (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate). You shouldn't have any ammonia or nitrite. If those look fine, then next thing I would check are the Ca, Alk, and Mg. If those look fine, we can go from there, but with all the mortality and the new tank I am betting something is not right chemically.

I am picking up a fish in Farmington on saturday, I may be able to stop by and take a look.
 
The problems seem to have started around the time you added the sump. Where did you get the sump from? How about the sand? You said this: sump-ten gallon hex tank w/ 3 inches of crushed coral covered by two inces of mud from an established tank then covered with sugar sand.

It sounds to me like you may have a contaminant in there somewhere.

Just a guess... good luck!
 
Welcome, sorry that you are having so much trouble. Before we can really troubleshoot your tank, we need tank parameters. post ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, pH, alk, salinity and temp.

Did you add new live rock recently? "The odor was incredibly strong on the pieces of live rock. "

Your tank is still very new, only 2moths old. Your biological filter isn't up to speed yet, especially if you have any die off. My suggestion would be to add a hardy fish like a damsel and recyle the tank, and allow the biological filter time to get establish. Rule of thumb is don't add corals till you get quarter size coraline algea growing on your glass, but like most of us out there, we never wait that long.
 
Wassup Wood......good meeting ya and glad yer gettin answers....Like I said at the meeting dont give up...sounds like an amonia and nitrate spike to me.Glad mike is baby sitting yer survivors....shoot me a pm when u get a sec.......post the guys test results as well.....

Brian
 
When you do finally start to add stuff next time just add one thing at a time. Slowly build your tank up.. Take your time..

Good Luck!
 
Ok my salinity is 1.023 this morning but I get different readings..my salinity meter from instant ocean says the above. my refractometer says 1.025 and my weighted thermometer/salinity weight says 1.025.

The ph is 8.4, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrate, 0 nitrite.

What should I do now? How long should I wait before I add anything? How will I know? I have one hermit crab in the sump right now, that's it no snails, fish or corals.

I have the guy from the fish store coming out tonight, but I'd love some other input.
You've all been really helpful
 
trust the refractometer not the hydrometer. I have lined up a few of those instant ocean hydrometers on the same water sample and not one was reading the exact same thing. Just make sure the refractometer is calibrated. DO this by putting freshwater preferably RO/DI water on it and see if it reads 1.000sg or 0 salinity. Either way i still think you are in the safe range if the refractometer and hydrometer are both giving you accepable readings.
What test kits are you using for ph, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate? If you have the API test kits then you may want to invest in some test kits that are a little more accurate. I really like the ELOS test kits but the salifert tests are also pretty good.
It may be that the sand/mud you got from the established tank triggered the issue. It may be that the tank it came from wasnt a healthy tank. Not saying that is 100% the case but just an idea to throw up in the air to explore.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11955090#post11955090 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by craiglanda
trust the refractometer not the hydrometer. I have lined up a few of those instant ocean hydrometers on the same water sample and not one was reading the exact same thing. Just make sure the refractometer is calibrated. DO this by putting freshwater preferably RO/DI water on it and see if it reads 1.000sg or 0 salinity. Either way i still think you are in the safe range if the refractometer and hydrometer are both giving you accepable readings.

Use EXTREME caution here. Many refractometers cannot be calibrated with RO/DI water, even thought the instructions say they can. I thought the same and found out it was WAY off doing it that way. I'll find the thread on it and post back.
 
Now heres a refrac question .....Mine came with calibration water....Can this water be used with other refracs?? If so Woody yer in...and oh yeah mine says do not calibrate when you 1st use it ......Am I correct in not doing this?

Brian
 
well i guess we can apply what the speaker at the meeting was saying. As long as it is consistantly reading the same number even it is off by 3-4ppt then you should be ok. So dont look at the numbers but look at consistancy. Some people run their tanks at 1.024 where others run theres up to 1.026 so if you are right in the middle all the time then those 3-4ppt shouldnt be a big concern. So getting back on topic with helping the new guy hahah! The point is... im pretty sure your specific gravity/salinity is not your problem.
 
Does anyone else have a problem reading the refractometer it appears the line is a little blurry on mine.

Should I put a fish in the tank this weekend???
 
I would wait, your tank has been through a lot. Just out of curiousity, how are you acclimating your corals, fish, etc?
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11955272#post11955272 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by craiglanda
As long as it is consistantly reading the same number even it is off by 3-4ppt then you should be ok. So dont look at the numbers but look at consistancy. Some people run their tanks at 1.024 where others run theres up to 1.026 so if you are right in the middle all the time then those 3-4ppt shouldnt be a big concern.

Just be careful... if you are running what you think is 35 ppt, you could actually be at 39 ppt or 31 ppt. That's a big difference. I do agree thought that consistency is very important.
 
Right but if the hydrometer is reading 1.023 and the refractometer is saying 1.025 than as long as they both stay relatively in the same spot then i think it isnt a problem...I do agree though that 3-4ppt is a big difference but with the given info i dont feel it is the underlying problem. I think there is something else going on here....
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11955567#post11955567 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by craiglanda
Right but if the hydrometer is reading 1.023 and the refractometer is saying 1.025 than as long as they both stay relatively in the same spot then i think it isnt a problem...I do agree though that 3-4ppt is a big difference but with the given info i dont feel it is the underlying problem. I think there is something else going on here....

Agreed, I don't think the salinity is his problem either. I just wanted to clarify the point that proper calibration is important. :D
 
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