Plumbing help needed

i2go

New member
I think I messed up my plumbing that cost me about 80$ at tongs.
I have a Rio 12HF(that's pretty loud, I'm trying to figure out solutions to lower the sound) then it goes to a check valve, next is a piece of pvc pipe, then a ball valve, a Y fitting, then two flexible tubing going to my returns that are on the bottom of my tank.

ill get some pics up soon

Ive been told that if I have a check valve, over time it will build up organisms inside it. And I need to clean it on a weekly basis.

What did I do wrong, and what can i change?

Here's the thread I posted in the DIY forums: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1299715

thanks
 
I would recommend that you plumb your tank so that your sump can hold all the water in the event your check valve fails. If you figure out that your sump can handle all the backflow, then you can leave the check valve in place and if it fails, it will be ok because your sump will hold all the water.

If your sump can not hold all the water if the check valve fails, you'll want to raise your return lines in your tank to a level where the back flow stops before you overflow your sump.

Joyce
 
I'd recommend that you ditch the check valve altogether.

And I agree with Macimage, leave enough room in your sump to accommodate for the extra water or they'll eventually end up on your carpet/floor.
 
I'd agree with that, but the OP stated that the returns are on the bottom of the tank. Doesn't he have to employ a check valve? Otherwise once you turn off the return pump, the tank will drain to the highest point of the return nozzle(s). Even in that scenario, the smallest leak in the return plumbing within the tank will eventually drain the tank in a prolonged outage.

The OP could re-drill the tank for a higher return bulkhead, or go over the top, but that isn't necessarily a viable option unless we know more about his/her set up.
 
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Hopefully, the returns are coming up through the overflow box.

I used two of those exact same check valves when I first set up my 225. However, after a few months when I found out more, I ripped them out and replumbed it.

I've noticed over the past 7 years that most of the tank of the months' on RC don't use check valves. You might was well copy the best:).

Joyce
 
the tank will drain to the highest point of the return nozzle(s)

Just a thought, what if I drilled a small hole in the loc line(return) put a small flexible hose near the top of the tank, but in the water, and seal it with silicone. Water would come out and when the pump fails air will go to the return.
 
Or, i thought of another idea, do you need other one nozzle to get air? I can leave you of my return loc line low, and the other i can put close to the top of the water line. So the one close to the water line with stop, but will the other nozzle keep draining?
 
If the two loc lines are connected, that will work.

Are your returns are drilled in the bottom of the tank or the bottom of your overflow?

Joyce
 
Here are some pictures, sorry they are so big

This is a picture when i first got it

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Now
I added two bars on the top for the light pegs, they were a PERFECT fit, the light can slide too when I work on it, before I it was very unstable to put the light on top of the tank. I didn't do much, but IMO it's figgen hard working on a tank.
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DSC02537_1.jpg


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I got a frame around the top of the tank, one because the water line didn't go to the top all the way so I thought it looked wierd, and my dad helps me on all this stuff. So...when we were drilling holes in the acrylic for the light bars, he went at a slight angle making a huge scratch on the left side. But you can barley see it now : )
 
O ya...where that orange towel is, I'm planning on putting a 10g refugium there. Have a pump from my sump go into it, then have an overflow(just like a piece of pvc pipe and water drains at the top), let gravity do its job and let the water into the same section of the sump( in the skimmer area)
 
With that setup, you should use check valves.

You can avoid using them if your return bulkheads are high in the tank. In that case, when the water level drops, the reverse flow ceases. In this case, it will continue to drain until the water level drops below one of the return nozzles (assuming they are on the same plumbing). Even worse, loc-line is not always water tight. Over time, some algae or something may pry open a seam in the loc-line well below the nozzle, meaning water would continue to drain from that point.

To make cleaning the check valves easier, you can use unions on either side, or buy check valves with integrated unions.
 
oh you bought this cube... I believe I saw it when it went on sale as well.

Beautiful tank... but the manner in which it was plumbed was certainly unique.

My recommendation: take out the bottom bulkheads for the return. Use some plugs and plug them up. The plugs won't be visible once you put in sand or live rock.

Since the cube is acrylic, drilling it again will be easy as pie. Re-drill the holes for the return and place them high up in the cube and you're done.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11657564#post11657564 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bromion
With that setup, you should use check valves.

You can avoid using them if your return bulkheads are high in the tank. In that case, when the water level drops, the reverse flow ceases. In this case, it will continue to drain until the water level drops below one of the return nozzles (assuming they are on the same plumbing). Even worse, loc-line is not always water tight. Over time, some algae or something may pry open a seam in the loc-line well below the nozzle, meaning water would continue to drain from that point.

To make cleaning the check valves easier, you can use unions on either side, or buy check valves with integrated unions.

Exactly.

Thanks for the pics i2go. That helps a lot in the attempt to offer constructive advice.

As I suspected, the return bulkheads are on the bottom of the tank.

I too would be uncomfortable relying solely on a check valve to stop your tank from emptying on the floor in the event of power outage or return pump failure.

Two options, if you are inclined to avoid the need to use check valves, which I certainly agree is IDEAL, are:

1. You could hard plumb pvc to those bulkheads to near the waterline and then run nozzles keeping them close to, or within an inch or two, of the water line. If done proficiently, that would eliminate any risk of a leak beneath the lowest return nozzle.

Bromion is correct, loc-line in not necessarily water-tight. Any leak in the return plumbing inside the tank, regardless of how small, beneath the lowest return nozzle will eventually drain the display tank, to that point, in the event of a prolonged power outage.

This would mitigate the possibility of the tank draining below the level of the return nozzle (unless of course, you experience some type of very unlikey catastrophic bulkhead failure on those bulkheads at the bottom, in which case the entire tank would spill on your floor) and you should verify that your sump capacity can handle whatever amount drains/siphons back to your sump if/when you loose power. Yes, drilling a small hole in the loc line just below the waterline will break siphon. Simple to test really, just get your tank set up and running and cut all power to your tank and note how high your waterline goes up in your sump. Then mark your maximum fill line appropriately.

Or,

2. you could cap off those return bulkheads on the bottom and either drill your back pane at the upper corners for return bulkheads or run your returns over the top. Ideally, you'd drill your hole for the return bulkhead(s) in the bottom of inside your overflow, but I doubt you'll have room in there. Your tank is acrylic, so it would be extremely easy to drill.

HTH

Yes, those TOTM's are something to aspire to and take away ideas from, but those tanks are usually VERY well-thought out ahead of time and properly drilled/plumbed to avoid the neccesity for check valves. I guess every scenario/set up is a bit different and needs to understood fully when making suggestions. :)
 
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If you decide to drill the back of the tank, you could seal the holes on the bottom of the tank completely by gluing on acrylic over them. This would let you remove the bulkheads completely and not have to worry about it again. Just get two pieces of acrylic, each larger than the holes, place them on top (inside the tank), then use Weld-On to seal.

Screwing a cap on the bulkheads (inside or outside) would also work, though there is the outside chance of a leak.
 
Agree. Bulkheads on the bottom pane of any tank make me nervous. Any leak, failure, or need to replace, is a major PITA. Two small, round pieces of acrylic and a couple nice gobs of Weld-On #16 will do the trick, and permanently!
 
I have to agree, I would seal the bulkheads to and drill new holes in the back of the tank. If for some reason that is not pratical use PVC on both returns to go up close to the top of the tank. I can patch the holes and drill new ones, if you need help. it looks like ther is room in the overflow box for a return line.
The only way I would ever have bulkheads located like that is if they were for a closed loop.That way in a power outage it should not matter if the plumbing is done properly.
 
I agree that you should patch over those holes drilled through the bottom with acrylic and weldon. It would be better to take a bit more time and effort now to replumb it, rather than having a tank failure. Laverda's offer to help sounds good.

My point with the TOTM comment was that if there are a few ways to go (ie check valve vs. no check valve) that the best way to go may be to copy the best tanks in the hobby:).

Joyce
 
I understand your point.

I guess my point is that generally the TOTM tanks are very well thought out and planned well ahead of time to avoid the need of having to use check-valves, or any sub-obtimal condition for that matter. In this instance, this was obviously not the case. (and that's not meant as a dig at the OP)

Without knowing what his setup was exactly, we had no way of knowing if he could replumb his tank to avoid having to use a check-valve. i.e. tempered glass tank which he could not be drilled, physical space confinements preventing going over-the-top with his returns, etc.

If that were the case, and he absolutely could not avoid having to use a check-valve, he might as well use a check-valve that he can clean/maintain.

Once he posted the pics and showed his set up could accomodate replumbing his returns, it was a no-brainer.

That's all. No biggie. :)
 
I think I'm going to seal the bottom holes, and drill two more holes. One high on the left or right, and one low on the opposite side. Or drill a hole in the overflow, but that would pretty hard wouldnt it? Where can you go to drill an acrylic tank? Ive been to Santa Anna acyrlics(something like that) to get some baffles.
thanks everyone
 
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