Plumbing question re: dual overflows & sump

[phishcrazee]

So for those of you who have dual overflows and a sump, how do you have your plumbing hooked up as it enters the sump from the main tank?

Do you have each overflow empty into one chamber in the sump (so one overflow would have to sort of "backtrack" to one end of the sump) or do you have each overflow empty into different chambers in the sump? How do you like your set-up, ie drawbacks/benefits of how your plumbing is set-up?

 

[phishcrazee]

Here are some pictures of my sump. It's a built-in 75g acrylic sump and the tank is 135g with dual overflows. The sump is partitioned off into 4 chambers:

Far left chamber:

Far right chambers:

Far right chamber with small box in upper corner:

and this is what the baffles/walls look like in between the chambers:

I'm wondering if I really need 4 compartments? Any recommendations on how I should set up the flow into the sump? I have an external return pump, btw, but I would be willing to get an internal one if it would make things any easier.........

 

[Ball]

This sump isnt quite making sense to me. From the pics, it looks like the water will rise to the top of the teeth (and stay at that level) on the far right chamber and the water will overflow into the remaining chambers and remain at a lower level compared the the far right chamber. That is if you put the drains in the far right chamber. The level in the 3 chambers will change with evaporation.

It doesnt look like you should put the drains in any other chamber becasue the water level will rise to the top of the teeth of the right corner, thus filling your sump full. Of course, this depends on where you dump the drains and where you put the return pump.

From the pics, it doesnt look like the sump is setup correctly. You need a chamber for the sump that stays at a constant level. It doesnt look like you have that from what I see.

Is this a factory made sump? It almost looks like somebody took a Clarity Plus tank and made it into a sump.

Also, on the return pump. There is nothing wrong with an external return pump. However, I like an internal pump. I ran external return pumps for years, so I have some experiance with them. On my new tank I switched to an internal and couldnt be happier. Complelty quite and way easier to manage. The externals will be nosier no matter what kind you get and use more electricty for the most part. I would highley recomend the Eheim 1262 for your tank. Thats what Im runing on my 135. Rock solid and silent. One of those pieces of equiptment that is worth the extra $$. Just my opinion....

 

[phishcrazee]

Yes, you can see why I'm confused by this sump........ it doesn't make any sense to me. There are holes drilled in the middle and at the bottom of each wall in between each chamber, except the last/far right chamber, so that the water level would be the same in 3 chambers, as far as I can tell.........

Apparently, it was a custom built sump. I'm thinking of knocking out one wall and plugging up some of the holes in the chamber walls...... not really sure how I'm going to plumb in though. I am thinking of getting an internal pump, as that's what I have now and like it.

Thanks for your input Jeff

 

[Ball]

There are so many ways to arrange the sump. If you dont want a refugium, then I would go simple and make it just 2 chambers. One that contains the skimmer and drains with the second chamber for the return pump. Make a baffle system that will keep the skimmer chamber at a constant water level and have the return chamber water level be and inch or so below that. If you want a refugium, them you will have to design the sump a little different.

In reality, a 75 gallon sump is a little big for a 135. I have a 35 gallon sump that is just the right size for my 135. However, if your planning on a refugium now or later, then you would need the extra gallons.

I would also ignore the far left diagonal chamber and the far upper right top chamber. They are of no use in a sump.

 

[phishcrazee]

Ok, I went digging down in the box that had the skimmer and parts in it and found an envelope with 2 pictures of the previous set-up There is some writing around the edge of the picture on the first picture...... the pictures are not the best especially the second one of the skimmer and pump (very blurry, but you get the gist of it). I do plan on having a refugium somewhere in the sump.

How it was set-up before I bought it:

Skimmer and external pump set-up. Skimmer is an Aqua-C:

 

[Ball]

I cant see how its possible for the sump to work correctly set up like that. It looks like the water level is the same all the way across the sump, about 1" or so from the top. When the return pump shuts off, there is no where for the excess water to go. You will have a flood if you lose power or turn off the retutn pump without draining water first.

So yeah, you need to redesign the sump so you have space in the sump to allow for the extra water to drain into.

Will your skimmer be internal or external? If internal or if you plan on having an internal skimmer sometime, you will need 1 chamber to be for the skimmer.

I think you will have to redo at least the two middle baffles/walls in order to get what you need.

 

[phishcrazee]

How about a set-up like this? Don't laugh at my sketching abilities I'm open to criticism

I would place the skimmer on the left, outside the sump) and it would take water that first comes from the tank (the dirtiest water) return it to the first chamber as well, so some of the returned water will get re-sent to the skimmer and worked over 2-3x before it moves on, but I figure that's probably a good thing.

Middle chamber is a fuge and the final chamber is for the return pump. The chambers are graduated, with the lowest being the far right chamber, so the sump will be able to handle access water.

The water leaves the tank and drops directly below from the left overflow and has to travel under the tank from the right overflow to empty into the first chamber.

 

[Ball]

That would certainly work.

 

[slovan]

How are you going to feed water to your skimmer without a pump or feeding it directly from the overflow?

 

[Ball]

Also, Im not sure if your plumbing the overflows with the idea I proposed in your other thread, but if you are, then you cant combine the drains like you have in the drawing. You would need to have 4 seperate drains going into the 1st chamber instead of 2.

 

[phishcrazee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14263642#post14263642 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slovan
How are you going to feed water to your skimmer without a pump or feeding it directly from the overflow?

Yep, there is a little external pump there for the skimmer, I just didn't draw it in the picture very well.

 

[slovan]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14264088#post14264088 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phishcrazee
Yep, there is a little external pump there for the skimmer, I just didn't draw it in the picture very well.

Is it the green Iwaki in the picture or is it something else?

 

[phishcrazee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14263704#post14263704 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ball
Also, Im not sure if your plumbing the overflows with the idea I proposed in your other thread, but if you are, then you cant combine the drains like you have in the drawing. You would need to have 4 seperate drains going into the 1st chamber instead of 2.

Ok, I was wondering about that....... yes, I do plan on hooking the overflows up with the Dursos etc like you had explained in the previous thread (already hooked them up that way). So the issue would be clogging at the "Y" juncture where the 2 pipes met, right? I can certainly just do the 4 individual lines, I've got about a mile of pvc here from the previous owner's plumbing

 

[phishcrazee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14264117#post14264117 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slovan
Is it the green Iwaki in the picture or is it something else?

Something else I think I'm going to get rid of the Iwaki (external pump in the blurry picture) and buy an internal pump and place it in the 3rd chamber, as in the sketch. I forget what brand etc the pump is for skimmer, but I think it was just some sort of a mag drive that was recommended for an Aqua-C of that size.

 

[slovan]

Ok. Just checking to make sure you have it all mapped out before plumbing everything together.

 

[phishcrazee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14264208#post14264208 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by slovan
Ok. Just checking to make sure you have it all mapped out before plumbing everything together.

I was checking my skimmer out and it appears I can just through it in the sump I think I will do that and save me the hassle of plumbing it outside, plus, it will be one less thing to look at if it's in the sump.

 

[Ball]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14264130#post14264130 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phishcrazee
Ok, I was wondering about that....... yes, I do plan on hooking the overflows up with the Dursos etc like you had explained in the previous thread (already hooked them up that way). So the issue would be clogging at the "Y" juncture where the 2 pipes met, right? I can certainly just do the 4 individual lines, I've got about a mile of pvc here from the previous owner's plumbing

It isnt really the clogging at the "Y". Its that the 3/4" drains need to be contolled by a valve and the 1" drains needs to have no valve.

Here is a diagram of my plumbing, if that helps any.

sump diagram

 

[phishcrazee]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14266430#post14266430 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Ball
It isnt really the clogging at the "Y". Its that the 3/4" drains need to be contolled by a valve and the 1" drains needs to have no valve.

Here is a diagram of my plumbing, if that helps any.

sump diagram

Oh yeah, forgot about that Thank you thank you thank you for the diagram-it's perfect!

I found a used Eheim 1262 for a decent price too, now just need my DH to watch the kiddo so I can start to piece this all together............

 

[sgarrett1108]

couldn'y you feed the skimmer with directly via the drain and then empty into the first chamber. Yould would be getting the dirtiest water and wouldn't need a pump to feed the skimmer.