plumbing under concrete

[gguertin]

So I have a build thread going and have been working on my 180 for a few months but I am starting to think I made a mistake on putting my sump below my tank. I didn't realize this was possible before which is the reason I didnt do it but I have my tank in the basement and my utility room to the right of it... Well I have been told I can use some sort of a saw to cut the concrete and pipe my drains and returns under the hallway and into the utility room giving me an actual sump room instead of working under the tank. I will attach a few pics but has anyone actually done this before? Any recommendations or cons to trying this? Would give me a lot of flexibility in the future since I would like to add a tank upstairs above where the sump would go and if I want to attach other things to my sump like a frag tank.

 

[Laddy]

Yes you can.

I added a floor drain to my existing basement, saw cutting for the drain, hydroblasting under the raised foundation and under our slab patio, to the waste line which runs out back.

Companies will do this for you, or you can rent a concrete saw at your local equipment rental place.

Is the floor un-finished, just floated out?

 

[gguertin]

the center part of the hallway is finished yes...

 

[benjc]

This sounds like it may be a job for a professional. Not only do the saws make a mess (they are water-cooled, so you get spent water and concrete dust everywhere), but it sounds if you are going to cut finished concrete as well; matching the new and old concrete may be difficult if not impossible.

 

[Laddy]

This sounds like it may be a job for a professional. Not only do the saws make a mess (they are water-cooled, so you get spent water and concrete dust everywhere), but it sounds if you are going to cut finished concrete as well; matching the new and old concrete may be difficult if not impossible.

Small concrete saws aren't water cooled, the commercial ones are though......yes, they make a good mess.

 

[Paul B]

As a construction electrician I have done that hundreds of times, besides as was said, very messy, it takes a long time. But you could just break a hole in the cement with an electric hammer, or sledge hammer and dig as far as you can with a small shovel in the direction you want to go. Then go twice that distance and break another hole and dig some more until you have made a trench to the first hole. Keep doing that until you get to where you want to be. Then you can push some PVC pipe through the trench and cement up the holes. Or of course get a cement saw and make a trench. But you will not believe the dust that will create.

 

[madean]

It can be done. But you have to take into consideration bow the house was built. I am assuming you have a concrete sub floor or slab. If you do there is a chance , depending on where you live that there are earthquake straps (I think that's what they are called) built into the slab. Basically its a bar that runs vertically, horizontally, diagonally and any other way that it was engineered. So your slab could have it and it might not. Its hard to tell. But if you cut into that, it's a very bad thing. The other thing you would possibly have to deal with is the temperature of the concrete. I imagine its colder than what the tank will be. So you will have warm water running through cool pipes because of the temperature transfer of the ground, concrete and pipes. I honestly believe a trough is a better idea if your going to do this. Basically strip cut with a concrete cutter and make it a box. You put the pipes inside the box under the floor. Then come up with something to cover the box and then put something over the cover like a removable carpet. So you have easy access to the pipes in case something happens.

 

[Fishmommy]

I thank my lucky stars every day for my basement floor drain and utility sink!


Sent from my gadget using Trippytalk HD

 

[Laddy]

the center part of the hallway is finished yes...

I'm going to assume this is a basement, much like mine, in the respect that you're not going to be entertaining the in-laws or having your boss over for dinner......in that case, I would snap a few lines with a chalk box, cut a trench (your slab is probably only a few inches thick, unless there's something you don't know), drop in a large diameter pipe (french drain size) and use that pipe as a chase for pvc flex from tank to sump.

How much elevation drop/gain from drains to sump area are we talking about, and how long is the run?

 

[gguertin]

So the first picture shows the corner of the tank and then the door and I would put the sump right on the otherside where the rodi unit is in the picture.

I live in mn so probably not a worry for earthquake stuff but the house was built in 1987.

Not to worried about the mess I dont have much down here other then the tank yet so I can lay plastic down and clean.

 

[gguertin]

If I were to do this is there a reason to make the drain pipe's a larger diameter then what I have now?

So I am running a beananimal overflow with 3 1" drains and 2 return pumps using 3/4.

Would it be beneficial to raise the diameter below ground or just leave it the same all the way through?

 

[Pigpen80]

You can get eclectic concrete saw that hook up to a vac, you should be able to rent. If not a grinder with a diamond wheel, score concrete with grinder, rent. Combi hammer/breaker and bust it up. Not that hard IMO

 

[woodnaquanut]

Most of the answers so far have answered the 'how do I cut the slab' question. I'm not so sure the process will be all that practical for you because the sump is not a straight run below your tank. Water would have to flow in a 'U' pattern down under the slab, over to the utility room then back up to the sump. I don't think you'd get much flow. You need a real plumbers opinion on this before you go cutting up your slab!

 

[buckeyereefer1]

most of the answers so far have answered the 'how do i cut the slab' question. I'm not so sure the process will be all that practical for you because the sump is not a straight run below your tank. Water would have to flow in a 'u' pattern down under the slab, over to the utility room then back up to the sump. I don't think you'd get much flow. You need a real plumbers opinion on this before you go cutting up your slab!

+++++++1 ^

 

[NanoReefWanabe]

So the first picture shows the corner of the tank and then the door and I would put the sump right on the otherside where the rodi unit is in the picture.

I live in mn so probably not a worry for earthquake stuff but the house was built in 1987.

Not to worried about the mess I dont have much down here other then the tank yet so I can lay plastic down and clean.

LOL a concrete saw in your house is a very bad idea...it doesnt matter how much plastic you put down, or how well you tape off every single return and cold air for you furnace...the amount of dust created by cutting concrete is incredible...the dust is also carcinogenic..not something you really want floating around your house...and it will be everywhere...there is virtually little you can do to avoid it being in every square in of your house...i am a landscaper i cut with a concrete saw every single day...and i hear it from every single neighbour everyday too...the most practical way to open a basement floor is with a jack hammer or demolition drill, noisy as hell but considerably less dust and much safer, and easier to clean up after...

Most of the answers so far have answered the 'how do I cut the slab' question. I'm not so sure the process will be all that practical for you because the sump is not a straight run below your tank. Water would have to flow in a 'U' pattern down under the slab, over to the utility room then back up to the sump. I don't think you'd get much flow. You need a real plumbers opinion on this before you go cutting up your slab!

i was thinking this very thing as well...sure a siphon will flow horizontally and back up again, but you need significant drop to achieve any sort of flow, and once you get air in the lines you are in for a world of hurt...unless you cut the basement floor out where your sump is going and drop the sump in the floor by a couple feet, i dont really see this ending well..

 

[SGT_York]

It's been done before with good success. You need to plumb a flush out so you can remove the detrius that will build up in the reverse siphon. You can plumb all three overflow lines into a single large diameter pipe or you can use two sumps. With a large diameter pipe you won't have much friction loss No problems with air as it can escape from the emergency pipe. If you use the Two sump method there will be height difference relative to the friction loss.

That said this is a major project that will cause much grief and may not work out. There was a similar thread a few weeks ago.

 

[madean]

You need to check out some other threads that are dealing with this same idea, one was floating around not too long ago. That person had two sumps, and needed a little help from a pipe fitter or engineer to calculate water heights or something like that. Either way check it out, it might help you in this build. It is one heck of a project though.

 

[TropTrea]

I had a door put into a conctete block wall years ago. They professionaly did it and they only took about an hour to cut it out. The mess as very localized and they did a great job cleaning it up. But the dorway costed about $500 to get cut out. Last year I enlarged a basement window and decided to do it myself. They made it look so simple but the saw I rented for $120 a day was not water cooled. I barely got it done in that day as it kept over heating. Then the wife was not happy as there was dust showing up all over the house from the concrete sawing.

So if you like your marriage get professionals to do it.

 

[gguertin]

Yea after all the feedback I will be planning this for a while I think. 1 concern I have now is the stagnet water that will be in the E drain of my bean aninmal overflow... I suppose I dont really ever use it and could always shopvac out whats in there if I did but its a concern I now have.

I have 2 people who have done this before locally willing to help. They havent done it for this particular scenario but 1 is an electrician and has done it a few times. Still need wife approval as well

 

[gguertin]

If I plumbed all 3 of my bean animal drains into 1 3 inch drain going under wouldnt that solve the stagnet water though? maybe that isnt an issue?