Yes, it is just like phosphate binding to calcium carbonate surfaces of live rock and sand. As you try to lower phosphate, some will come off the surfaces.
PO4 high, not coming down, need advice.
- Thread starter SS_Sean
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Yes, it is just like phosphate binding to calcium carbonate surfaces of live rock and sand. As you try to lower phosphate, some will come off the surfaces.
So I am a sap.... believing a vendors claim.... its right on their site however. What you say makes perfect sense as to the equilibrium, sort of like an RO membrane does.
ROWAphos is the most effective phosphate remover on the market today. It is widely used in Europe and is now finding success in the United States. ROWAphos was developed in Germany to reduce Phosphates in the Main Water Supply. It is being used in lakes and ponds and has been refined for the Aquarium Market. ROWAphos will not only remove phosphates but will never release them back into the system.
ROWAphos is the most effective phosphate remover on the market today. It is widely used in Europe and is now finding success in the United States. ROWAphos was developed in Germany to reduce Phosphates in the Main Water Supply. It is being used in lakes and ponds and has been refined for the Aquarium Market. ROWAphos will not only remove phosphates but will never release them back into the system.
Aquarist007
New member
You have company:headwally:
Aquarist007
New member
Let's see if I have this straightYes, it is just like phosphate binding to calcium carbonate surfaces of live rock and sand. As you try to lower phosphate, some will come off the surfaces.
Tank a has a high level of phosphates. I use Gfo to bring them down to unmeasurable.
I now pitch the Gfo and replace or I don't replace and wait til I get measureable phosphates again.
Ie there is no reason to keep Gfo in a system as a preventative measure?
Similar to running carbon. I only run carbon if I have a tank issue and then for a couple of days after.
Their claim was why I did the experiment years ago, because it didn't make sense to me as an expert on phosphate binding (I've spent 20 years studying phosphate binding, and products that I co-invented to bind it in a medical context sell more than a billion dollars worth every year).
It doesn't matter how high the phosphate was if the GFO was bringing it down, because the GFO hasn't reached equilibrium. But if it stops at, sat, 0.1 ppm, and then you add more GFO (or bring phosphate down in any other way, like a water change, etc) and the phosphate goes to 0.02 ppm, the original GFO will release some of what it bound.
Aquarist007
New member
If the Gfo is not spent won't it absorb back what it releases in the tank once the tank level of phosphates has increased again. Thus allowing the user to keep it running
Yes, but presumably, you want the level to be going down or staying down.
GFO (and other binders) being "spent" is not an on/off state. The amount it binds goes up as the phosphate concentration goes up.
FWIW, I'm not saying this is a problem in normal use. If you run GFO starting at 0.1 ppm and it drops to 0.01 ppm, and then after a few weeks it begins to rise again, it it time to replace the GFO and there has been no net release of phosphate to the system.
But if you run GFO and leave it there as the phosphate rises when it is "spent", then whatever other means you then begin using to remove phosphate (such as macroalgae or water changes) have to strip some phosphate off the GFO to bring tank phosphate down to low levels again. Not all of it, certainly, but some of it.
Anyway, I don't want to blast GFO excessively. I use and like GFO.
I just don't agree with some of the marketing claims.
Aquarist007
New member
Yes, but presumably, you want the level to be going down or staying down.
GFO (and other binders) being "spent" is not an on/off state. The amount it binds goes up as the phosphate concentration goes up.
FWIW, I'm not saying this is a problem in normal use. If you run GFO starting at 0.1 ppm and it drops to 0.01 ppm, and then after a few weeks it begins to rise again, it it time to replace the GFO and there has been no net release of phosphate to the system.
But if you run GFO and leave it there as the phosphate rises when it is "spent", then whatever other means you then begin using to remove phosphate (such as macroalgae or water changes) have to strip some phosphate off the GFO to bring tank phosphate down to low levels again. Not all of it, certainly, but some of it.
Anyway, I don't want to blast GFO excessively. I use and like GFO.
I just don't agree with some of the marketing claims.
Thanks Randy
Do you keep your Gfo on all the time?
There is other vendors that make similar claims on their binders, and not just GFO types.
The Rowa site is consistent with your plan of recharge time = when they start to rise again. From what I am seeing, I am using about $12 worth every few months now. I am going to track this to see exactly how long. But I added chaeto, so this will affect it I am sure. Not so much for PO4, but as a breeding ground for food and nitrate removal.
The Rowa site is consistent with your plan of recharge time = when they start to rise again. From what I am seeing, I am using about $12 worth every few months now. I am going to track this to see exactly how long. But I added chaeto, so this will affect it I am sure. Not so much for PO4, but as a breeding ground for food and nitrate removal.
SS_Sean
New member
Well.... getting back after this.... worked 72 hours a week for 8 weeks, that sucked!... :uhoh3:
Just measured PO4:
Tank water - 0.37
Output from reactor - 0.29
Filtered RODI water - 0.00
So, what I did a couple days ago is I replaced my two little fishies phosban reactor for a BRS dual reactor... the phosban was a little small for the tank.
I'm dosing Lanth again..... :facepalm:
Continuing the battle for low PO!!!
Just measured PO4:
Tank water - 0.37
Output from reactor - 0.29
Filtered RODI water - 0.00
So, what I did a couple days ago is I replaced my two little fishies phosban reactor for a BRS dual reactor... the phosban was a little small for the tank.
I'm dosing Lanth again..... :facepalm:
Continuing the battle for low PO!!!
Aquarist007
New member
Wow that is a brutal schedule
I think the phosphate is still leaching out of the rock and eventually you will win
SS_Sean
New member
I like your optimism!! I will have to just keep dosing... probably weekly, so my fish don't start smelling like a city pool. :uhoh2:
Aquarist007
New member
If you get fed up you can exchange some of the reef rock that is really bad for base rock. Or take a piece out a time and clean it off in muriatic acid which will dissolve the layer of phosphates coating the rock
SS_Sean
New member
It's been going good. I have had to dose lanth once a week. Been dosing 15ml lanth: 1L of RODI. I've also been switching out GFO every month, but I think I'm going to up that to once every two weeks. It's keeping the numbers down, but not perfect. I haven't really posted because nothings really changed. I don't think there's any magic fix to this one, just lots tedious work to keep this under control.
One thing I did change is even though I cut back on the food amount significantly, I'm also feeding differently. I now do small squirts spread out over a period of time, and then squirt some in again. I keep doing this until the food's gone. I'm trying to give the fish a chance to eat as much of the meaty substance as possible before the rest of the small micro stuff (rotifers, etc.) spread out for the corals.
Thanks for asking. Just the daily grind here.
One thing I did change is even though I cut back on the food amount significantly, I'm also feeding differently. I now do small squirts spread out over a period of time, and then squirt some in again. I keep doing this until the food's gone. I'm trying to give the fish a chance to eat as much of the meaty substance as possible before the rest of the small micro stuff (rotifers, etc.) spread out for the corals.
Thanks for asking. Just the daily grind here.
How much GFO did you use? What was the phosphate level before GFO? Something is amiss?
