Possible New Cure for Ick?

[wmam]

I take it that no one else has anymore to add to this post?

 

[Thales]

Yes, you are being overly sensitive. I never said any names or quoted anyone. I don't know why you thought I was singling you out. In fact, your name didn't even register with me, really.

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know who you were talking about because you didn't say who you were talking about. I thought it may have been me, so I asked.

I did NOT take sides. Notice you left out in your quote of me that "I won't quit using hypo until I see more research "Extensive Reasearch" done on the benefits of ginger, if, in fact there is any."
No sides taken here, just wanting to learn and be open minded to new things.

Notice I said nothing to indicate that I thought you took sides.

Now, back to the subject of "Ginger" "Hypo and Garlic" please!

Agreed!

 

[Steven Pro]

I'm not aware of any work in this area, and I doubt there would be on garlic as such. It would be more likely for someone to investigate various components of garlic for there effectiveness.

I have a theory about garlic and it might apply to ginger, too. Regardless of any antiparasitic properties or components of either, the benefit of garlic (or ginger) may be somewhat of a placebo effect. In order to feed the fish the garlic (or ginger) soaked food, people have to feed the fish. If you believe it is going to work, you might end up feeding the fish more often and you would certainly watch more closely to make sure they eat. This is likely to result in them being fed better than they might otherwise be. More food may lead to more strength to either survive the infection and/or develop an immunity to the parasite.

Given that the general advice for a reef tank is to feed the fish sparingly to reduce nutrient import, the extra feeding that may result from garlic and/or ginger may be sufficient to improve the chances of the fish surviving and acquiring immunity. Additionally, the garlic (or ginger) may provide minerals, elements or other nutritional components that are lacking in the diet.

Note that I'm not saying that garlic and ginger don't have antiparasitic properties but am speculating on other possible reasons for apparent success.

I have another possible theory. A fish that is obviously infected with Ich/Cryptocaryon, but it still willing to eat is a good sign. It may indicate that the specimen has already begun to develop, or from a previous exposure had already developed, some level of acquired immunity to the parasite.

 

[wmam]

StevenPro


Yes, agreed but isn't there anyway to know for sure that either Ginger or Garlic has or has not any effect on this parisite without spending millions of dollars on research? I guess we just have to try it out for ourselves but then again??????????

 

[Steven Pro]

StevenPro
Yes, agreed but isn't there anyway to know for sure that either Ginger or Garlic has or has not any effect on this parisite without spending millions of dollars on research? I guess we just have to try it out for ourselves but then again??????????

Yes and no. You could easily and cheaply obtain fish that have never been exposed to Ich (saltwater adapted Mollies or captive raised Clownfish from a breeder that you know and trust), expose them (this is the tricky part because you have to be sure you expose them to Cryptocaryon and only Cryptocaryon), feed half garlic food, and see what happens. Then analyze whether there was a statistical difference in the outcomes for the garlic treated fish and the fish that received no treatment.

 

[Steven Pro]

By the way, this is something that I have considered doing myself, but I can't figure out a way to be sure I am only exposing the test fish to Cryptocaryon. If anyone has any advice, feel free to reply here or PM me.

 

[stlouisguy]

I didnt read all the posts, but I had ich very bad, lost a blue tang and a golden eye tang, even with garlic. I read this post about a month ago and put ginger in with garlic powder. Nothing else has change, and my maroon clown which I thought was dead he was so infected has made a complete comeback and no sign of ich in a month on any other fish.

Dont know if its the ginger, but Im not going to stop using it thats for sure!

 

[wmam]

stlouisguy,
So you have a 175 gal. tank and you mixed ? amount of garlic with ? amount of ginger?
Do you mix it with food and if so exactly what kind and how much? Is there anything else you do or add?

 

[wmam]

StevenPro,
Short of having a real good knowledge as to what the ick looks like under a microscope and was able to pick up one at a time and put in water....... Man that would be tough. LOL

 

[wmam]

Want Ads ................

Looking for aquaculturer that grows ick and only ick. LOL

 

[wmam]

I mean theres got to be an easier way.

 

[stlouisguy]

I dont get real exact (guess I should) I take 6 frozen cubes and let them thaw, the I put in about 1 teaspoon of ginger and 1 teaspoon of garlic powder. Mash that al together and let it set out for about 20 minutes, then feed. Put the rest in the fridge in a ziplock bag. After it gets cold I take a pinch out once a day and hold it in the water, the fish come up and eat it out of my hand, the the little fish get the scraps

I will let you know if it appears again. Oh and I keep the water a constant 80-81 degrees. That seems to help also

 

[wmam]

Are the frozen cubes "Brine Shrimp Plus"?

 

[stlouisguy]

no, its not brine ( thats the sunday treat) I will get the name of the food. My LFS which is real good has these and the fish love them. I will PM you the name of it if you want when I get home

 

[wmam]

Thanks.

 

[ATJ]

By the way, this is something that I have considered doing myself, but I can't figure out a way to be sure I am only exposing the test fish to Cryptocaryon. If anyone has any advice, feel free to reply here or PM me.

Steve,

The way to do it would the way the other researchers do. They extract trophonts immediately after they infect the fish and then culture them on trays etc. independent of the fish (at least for the tomont stage). When the theronts excyst they use them to infect another batch of naive fish. If you do this a few times I think you an be pretty sure you have a fairly pure culture.

 

[Steven Pro]

Steve,

The way to do it would the way the other researchers do. They extract trophonts immediately after they infect the fish and then culture them on trays etc. independent of the fish (at least for the tomont stage). When the theronts excyst they use them to infect another batch of naive fish. If you do this a few times I think you an be pretty sure you have a fairly pure culture.

Do you have any references for papers on this procedure? I would like to read about it some more to familiarize myself with the process before I begin. I also have some fish friends who also happen to be vets that would be willing to help, but they don't have much experience in this field that isn't hobby related.

 

[ATJ]

Do you have any references for papers on this procedure? I would like to read about it some more to familiarize myself with the process before I begin. I also have some fish friends who also happen to be vets that would be willing to help, but they don't have much experience in this field that isn't hobby related.

There's quite a few that use similar techniques. These are probably the best:

Burgess P.J. and Matthews R.A. 1994. A standardized method for the in vivo maintenance of <i>Cryptocaryon irritans</i> (Ciliophora) using the grey mullet <i>Chelon labrosus</i> as an experimental host. <i>J Parasitol</i>.<b>80</b>:288-292.

Yoshinaga T. and Dickerson H.W. 1994. Laboratory propagation of <i>Cryptocaryon irritans</i> Brown, 1951 on saltwater-adapted black mollies Poecilia latipinna. <i>J. Aquat. Anim. Health</i>.<b>6</b>:197-201.

 

[EvanH]

Some slight breaking news here, at least from my tank...

You may remember my CB was infected with Ich, i grated up some ginger root, and it didn't do anything. Well my firefish showed signs yesterday too (and there's NO way to get him out of the display tank), so I headed out and got some ginger ( i through the other stuff away).

Lasted time i just used a grater to slice it up, but this time i cut into the root, and minced up the flesh from the center. i fed that with some brine shrimp (they only took about 2 pieces each before refusing it). Came back this afternoon, and everyone is 100% ich clear. i'm not sure if its the ich cycle, or what, but there's no signs on any fish..

Just my findings...

 

[mickyfin]

As an FYI

"Experts" in our forums are now recommending ginger.

I hope this "soultion" doesn't cause any new problems.

I don't understand how someone could recommend this, never having used it, based on anecdotal feedback to some poor newb with a real problem on their hands.

For shame!