Possible New Cure for Ick?

[mickyfin]

Mickey, if you go back and read all the posts, I believe its around page 33...

I didn't want to go here. I've read all the posts. You're bordering on getting personal here insinuating I didn't read before I shot my mouth off.

...when the original poster says he was being tongue in cheek with the title, he should have said a possible new treatment for the outbreak of Ich.

Then why are you recommending it in the forums?

Of course not having Ich is the desirable way, but if you have it, and your fish are on the brink of death from it (which mine were) why not try a new way to treat?

So you knew this was the case with the person you ecommended it to? they were desperately grasping at straws no matter how unscientific the advice? I'll make sure to scan for Ick threads and recommend they try windex.

But if you are going to break down my sentences and take words out to prove your point, and not take my entire post in the spirit if which it is posted, then this discussion is done.

It's not done until I have a chance to respond.

Have you tried it? Did it work? Did it not work? If you answered no to the first question, STFU and go away.

You're missing the point. The point is not wether the remdies work or not, have been tested by myself or not rather you're giving bad advice. Stop. Second, I won't STFU as you so delicately put it. You gave bad advice, suck it up and move on.

You are pushing your beliefs that it is bad with nothing to back it up. At least I have preliminary findings that it works. I havent seen a post of anyone losing their tank or having adverse effects. Some posted it didnt work, but thats about it.

OK. I can dump in small amounts of copper into my tank and see no adverse effects. It cured the Ich too. Long term what will this do to my reef?

Do you know the long term of effects of ginger additions to reef tanks? Know anything about possible chemical/biological impacts?

"Perhaps we should be recommending quarantine then, since it seems to work best."

Dont include eveyone in the "we" part of that. You are comparing apples to oranges. To start a new tank, to add fish to a ich free(if that possible) quarantine is the best.

Agreed.

But to a tank that has Ich, quarantine is foolish. So you deal with the problem you have best way you can. Again, my mixture of ginger, garlic, healthy food, stable temp, etc does the trick. Is it one thing if there? doubt it. Is it a combo of things? probably.

The best way to cure Ick is to remove the Fish from the reef. QT and dose medication. You can't do it in tank because of the impact to the other inhabitants of the reef.

I am of the opinion that no one on this site can tell me Im wrong because no one actually knows.

Uh huh.

I know, I know, thats your point. But maybe this idea will save just one fish, and if that happens, its worth all these words.
Have a nice day.

You missed the point I'm afraid. I just wish you wouldn't recommend ginger for Ich until we know more. That's all.

 

[mickyfin]

I apologize for cluttering this thread. i would much prefer STLouisGuy if you respond via PM or open a new thread for this debate.

 

[wmam]

Oh my God !!!!!!!!!!!!!



















HELL HAS FROZEN OVER!!!!!!!!!!

 

[wmam]

<-------------- Still waiting patiently for the guillotine.

 

[JHReef]

Don't worry, I'll hold the basket so your head doesn't bounce.

 

[DgenR8]

I have nothing against a spirited debate, but some of what I see here is bordering on obnoxious and inflammatory. I'd prefer not to close this thread, but give me one more line like "Have you tried it? Did it work? Did it not work? If you answered no to the first question, STFU and go away." and I'll lock it and toss away the key. Let us not forget this is a hobby, we keep these animals because it's supposed to bring us joy and relaxation.

 

[stlouisguy]

Larry, I have no problem to a debate. But when someone starts cutting up my post to prove a point and choosing certain words to make their postion, I take offense at it.

I shouldnt have posted that, and I apologize.

But it angers me that people feel its their mission in life to keep new ideas down. Like I said in my first post, what was the person who first tried garlic was told. Im sure a lot of what I have read in this thread.

Im done with this thread. Something worked for me, helped save my fish, and has kept the Ich in my tank from breaking out. As the only thing I changed was adding Ginger, Im going to stick by what I say and recommend it.

Oh and Mickey, Please send me pics when you use Windex on your tank, K?

 

[stlouisguy]

Larry, just noticed. GREAT signiture. Pink Floyd Wish you were here.

 

[stlouisguy]

LOL @ Mickey, see you took out the windex trial hahaha

From your sig, I see why your so strong.

 

[mickyfin]

Wish you were here != Have a Cigar
Mickey!=Mickyfin
Strong !=Tough
Ginger != Garlic
Personal Attacks != rational argument

 

[stlouisguy]

rofl @ ^

 

[mickyfin]

;-)

 

[ATJ]

I think the ginger treatment with the garlic is for people who have ich in their tank, cannot tear it down and go the 6 week route and just need it to go and stay dormant.

There is no scientific evidence at all to support or even suggest the idea that Cryptocaryon can go dormant. It only has 3 stages (or 4 depending how you count them) and none of these are capable of becoming dormant as such. It is either attached to fish and feeding (trophont), reproducing (tomont) or looking for a fish to infect (theront). (The 4th phase is tomite which is what the daughter cells are called before they exit the tomont and then they become theronts.)

The only phase that even comes close to "dormancy" is the tomont and only by virtue of the variable nature of time between encystment and excystment. All studies have shown that for the vast majority of tomonts, reproduction takes between 3 and 16 days. There have only been a few exceptions of tomonts taking longer before excystment.

 

[Thales]

But it angers me that people feel its their mission in life to keep new ideas down.

Do you really think that is what is happening in this thread?

 

[wmam]

Don't worry, I'll hold the basket so your head doesn't bounce.

Thanks but I think I might have escaped this time.

Then again?????????

 

[ATJ]

I didnt read all the posts, but I had ich very bad, lost a blue tang and a golden eye tang, even with garlic. I read this post about a month ago and put ginger in with garlic powder. Nothing else has change, and my maroon clown which I thought was dead he was so infected has made a complete comeback and no sign of ich in a month on any other fish.

There's something here I don't understand. You say the maroon clown was so badly infected that you thought it was dead. Even mild infections often causes loss of appetite. All badly infected fish I have seen show no interest at all in food. If it was so bad and the fish was near death, how did you get it to eat the ginger soaked food?

 

[wmam]

There is no scientific evidence at all to support or even suggest the idea that Cryptocaryon can go dormant. It only has 3 stages (or 4 depending how you count them) and none of these are capable of becoming dormant as such. It is either attached to fish and feeding (trophont), reproducing (tomont) or looking for a fish to infect (theront). (The 4th phase is tomite which is what the daughter cells are called before they exit the tomont and then they become theronts.)

The only phase that even comes close to "dormancy" is the tomont and only by virtue of the variable nature of time between encystment and excystment. All studies have shown that for the vast majority of tomonts, reproduction takes between 3 and 16 days. There have only been a few exceptions of tomonts taking longer before excystment.

ATJ,

Do you know of any case studies where they have tested to keep the daughter cells (Tomites) from leaving the Tomont? Like I wonder if there could be somthing that we could possibly put in our water that would not harm anything else but yet encapsulate them in such a way that would keep them from getting out?

 

[ATJ]

Do you know of any case studies where they have tested to keep the daughter cells (Tomites) from leaving the Tomont? Like I wonder if there could be somthing that we could possibly put in our water that would not harm anything else but yet encapsulate them in such a way that would keep them from getting out?

Dropping the temperature below about 15°C is probably the only thing, although I'm not aware of any specific studies into this. I can tell you that the cysts are relatively impervious to many chemicals and quite high concentrations are required to do much. Even copper is not very effective against the tomonts.

I'm not really sure of the value of doing what you suggest as you would need to continually dose whatever it was and if you stopped dosing for any reason, the tomites would excyst.

The best we can hope for is for ginger (or something else yet to be discovered) to kill the trophonts directly through ingestion of some active ingredient. The next best would be that the active ingredient greatly improves the immune response although this could still result in fish dying on the first exposure.

 

[wmam]

I am thinking of setting up a 10 gal. and seeing if I can find a fish at one of the many LFS's in my area that has Cryptocaryon and trying this Garlic and Ginger mixture. Of course I am going to feel bad if the fish dies wondering if I should have just tried the copper and or the hypo. ATJ, what do you suggest someone like me, not having much education on such matters, doing if I was wanting to try something like this?

 

[stlouisguy]

I have a mated pair of maroon clowns. The larger of the two was the one who was infected. he was covered, even the eyes, was wobbling back and forth and kinda "sitting" on a rock just out of the stream of water from a powerhead.

The other clown was grabbing chunks of food and swimming down by the sick one and was eating it and spitting it back out, and the sick clown ate what was around him.

maybe its maroon clown spit that make him well