Possible New Cure for Ick?

Some good reading here on the fW Ich, this might be promising treatment if there would be a way to treat via food

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=119907&rendertype=abstract

I wondered if the same applies to the Crypto... I notice my snake like fish (gobis, dragonwrasse) similar to catfish smooth skins, seem to fare better than the Delicate (more expensive) fish...

so really cure for "ICK"/"ICH" is not quite accurate..

its really a cure for "Crypt?"
 
ATJ said:
Marc,

I wasn't suggesting that people observe the fish for 7 days before taking action. Immediate action should be taken - which is why quarantining fish is a good idea as treatment can commence immediately without the need to move the fish. My comments were more directed to the observations of a few spots on fish and assuming that it must be Cryptocaryon.

Based on the information you have provided, it is not possible to determine the cause of death of the yellow tang, nor is it even possible to say that it had Cryptocaryon.

The signs you describe are consistent with Cryptocaryon, and if it was Cryptocaryon it is probably the fish came with it and the trophonts became visible as they grew. It normally doesn't kill that quickly, although can, and I guess given the treatment the yellow tang was receiving from the blue tang, death is not as surprising. It is also possible that it had Amyloodinium either alone or with the Cryptocaryon. Amyloodinium can kill very quickly.

Thanks for the solid reply. I've only heard random talk about Amyloodinium and really don't know much about that.

Btw, in your next reply, you used the % symbol a few times, but yours has an extra circle or dot. That's unusual. Is it caused by your Aussie Keyboard? ;)
 
melev said:
Btw, in your next reply, you used the % symbol a few times, but yours has an extra circle or dot. That's unusual. Is it caused by your Aussie Keyboard? ;)

If I was to use my Aussie keyboard in normal mode, my whole post would be upside down. ;)

‰ is the per mil symbol. While % (percent) means per hundred, ‰ (per mil) means per thousand. It is the equivalent of ppt (parts per thousand).
 
WoW! Never even heard of that, let alone thought it was a legitimate symbol! I think you would drive me nuts if you taught me a mere 10% (lol) of your knowledge. ;)
 
ATJ........ Have you recently changed your avatar? The blinking eye's I just caught and it is weird man, very weird. :)

Anyway's..... I'm jealous about all you Aussie's there it being your summer time and all. But I guess thats o.k. cause ours is just around the corner. :)

I've been away for a while and was wondering if you have either proven or dis-proven the "Ginger" method? Oh thats right ............. Are you still on vacation or are you testing that Cal. meter yet?

Melev,
Can I send you an idea of what I want in a sump via e-mail and get a estimate for you to build it and ship it to me?
 
Life Cycle

Life Cycle

From Reef Keeping Marine ICH part I:

The lifecycle of the parasite is interesting and important to understand when evaluating a treatment. The stage where the parasite is attached to a fish is called a trophont. The trophont will spend three to seven days (depending on temperature) feeding on the fish. After that, the trophont leaves the fish and becomes what is called a protomont. This protomont travels to the substrate and begins to crawl around for usually two to eight hours, but it could go for as long as eighteen hours after it leaves it's fish host. Once the protomont attaches to a surface, it begins to encyst and is now called a tomont. Division inside the cyst into hundreds of daughter parasites, called tomites, begins shortly thereafter. This noninfectious stage can last anywhere from three to twenty-eight days. During this extended period, the parasite cyst is lying in wait for a host. After this period, the tomites hatch and begin swimming around, looking for a fish host. At this point, they are called theronts, and they must find a host within twenty-four hours or die. They prefer to seek out the skin and gill tissue, then transform into trophonts, and begin the process all over again (Colorni & Burgess, 1997).

This is a great article on Marine ICH it's a two part on Reef Keeping

The more I research on CRYPTO... the more I realize and surmise that MAYBE this parasite is most LIKELY vulnerable to treatments and irradication just AFTER the TROPHONT drops off the host and hits the sand or other surfaces to replicate as the PROTOMONT and upto and during the encyst stage just before TOMONT/TOMITE stage. and also Possibly during the stage where the TOMITES are hatching and hunting as Theronts..

In the encyst stage it may already have some type of a protective shell forming to keep out medications, from whatever source, from being effective while attached and replicating. (hidden). As others have found, once they attach to the host at TROPHONTS often treatments even Dipping can be ineffective. (though the author of the above RK post claims effectiveness)

During light infestations some treatments, including Garlic and Ginger. {or Ginger,Skipper and Mary Anne... err nevermind.. hahah} might be effective at killing and interrupting the replication process as proven in some tests., IF the treatment is being used in the middle of the process at JUST the right time..

All this is conjecture of course, I cannot prove anything, but doesn't it seem logical that there might be a more VULNERABLE time to kill the parasite in different stages? And this would also account why some have had success while some have failed. I Also read that Trophonts like to drop off in the DARK? So treating at night near or at the end of the Trophonts cycle MIGHT be effective in killing them BEFORE they can encyst and protect.

Also When the TOMITES hatch into THERONTS and during that critical period where they must find a host.. IF treatment is present at that time it MAY also kill them BEFORE they infest.

My Trophonts seem to have just dropped off my badly infested Blue TANG, so tonight I will drop in some garlic oil pressed from fresh cloves, tonight along with some Ginger just for kicks. (I'm out of ICH attack!). Then when they are gone in the morning.. CLAIM they are CURED! ahahha noooo really...

This cycle MAY just be the reason SOME in this thread had success while others SEEM to have failed.. Maybe some just caught the parasite at its weakest point and managed to kill it off While others treated and treated (like me) when the parasite was already on or in the fish attached under the skin safe and sound in the Trophont stage (hard to kill with anything).

The key must be to CONTINUALLY treat with methods suggested in this thread including HYPO, GARLIC, GINGER, whatever.. Eventually the treatment MIGHT catch the bastards when they are most vulnerable. The mistake would be to quit treating when they dissapear. and ONLY start treating when they RE Appear as Trophonts... By then it MAY be too late if they are able to bury deep enough into the fish.

By raising the temperature and speeding up the process cycle of the parasite means that treatment will be needed for a shorter period of time and most likely would catch the parasite at its weakest point during a shorter period = greater success rate since most users will treat and then quit.
 
Last edited:
Originally posted by wmam
ATJ........ Have you recently changed your avatar? The blinking eye's I just caught and it is weird man, very weird. :)

Nope. Been using this one for more than 18 months.

Anyway's..... I'm jealous about all you Aussie's there it being your summer time and all. But I guess thats o.k. cause ours is just around the corner. :)

Last day of Summer is Monday.

I've been away for a while and was wondering if you have either proven or dis-proven the "Ginger" method? Oh thats right ............. Are you still on vacation or are you testing that Cal. meter yet?

I don't think I ever said I was going to study the "Ginger" method. I don't even have time to design a study let alone run one.

I think it is Randy that is testing the Ca meter when he's back from vacation.
 
Re: Life Cycle

Re: Life Cycle

Poseidon's Vortex said:
The more I research on CRYPTO... the more I realize and surmise that MAYBE this parasite is most LIKELY vulnerable to treatments and irradication just AFTER the TROPHONT drops off the host and hits the sand or other surfaces to replicate as the PROTOMONT and upto and during the encyst stage just before TOMONT/TOMITE stage. and also Possibly during the stage where the TOMITES are hatching and hunting as Theronts..

It is the tomites/theronts that are most susceptible to treatment, be it copper or hyposalinity.
 
Well, I tried some ginger last night.

Background: I have a juvenile blue "hippo" Tang (Paracanthurus hepatus). For the past three months, since I got him, he has a had "a light case if ich." In other words, he has about three very small white spots, that move around on his skin. I don't think it is small bubbles or debris. Also, he occasionally scratches against the rocks.

Last night, I smashed some ginger into Formula two flakes and floated them on the surface. The tang and the only other fish in the tank, a tomato clown, ate it. The sps and lps, and softies were not apparently affected, but my 2 croceas immediately retracted their mantle. :worried2: I turned out the lights, wondering if I had just done something really stupid.

This morning the clams opened up normally, and yes for the first time since I had him, there were no white spots on my tang.

I realize that this does not prove much of anything and I remain skeptical, but it is interesting.

I am undecided, for my clams sake, if I will try it again, maybe if I could bind the ginger to a food source that will mostly be ingested by the fish and not released directly into the water.

A few years ago I had a yellow tang with similar symptoms, and tried garlic(extract and chopped) with no success.
 
Last edited:
I may as well add to this bibliography.
I have a minor ich infestation which has been on and off for 2 months now. Never more than 1 spot on any fish at a time (that I can see). Occasional rubbing on substrate.
I got 4 cloves of garlic and some ginger , put it in the blender, pureed it. Then put assorted fish foods into it. They ate it.
I would be surprised if this had a affect on them because the ich has been pretty consistent for 2 months although never gaining a major foothold on the tank. Whatever happens will be inconclusive, but if they stop getting the itch spots, then I am assuming its something to do with the ginger/garlic.
 
I have just come through a MAJOR infestation doing garlic and ginger neither seemd to have any effect esp on my Blue Tang which has been completely covered for about 3 weeks. He is so quick and shy I cant even catch him without tearing down my whole reef.

IMHO these treatments have ZERO effect on MAJOR outbreaks, they may help a little with minor ones, or maybe even not, since the parasites come and go with or without treatment.

As far as Im concerned neither works. They MIGHT help slow the secondary Infection as a result of the parasite, but stopping or killing infestations. no way.
 
CyanoMagnet said:
I have a minor ich infestation which has been on and off for 2 months now. Never more than 1 spot on any fish at a time (that I can see). Occasional rubbing on substrate.
This doesn't sound a whole lot like Cryptocaryon. When the spot appears on a fish, for how long is it visible? After it disappears, how long before another one appears?
 
Wow!!! This thread is still going??? So did we ever figure out who was right?

I know Garlic has worked on more than one occasion for me and since I have a little part time gig at a LFS by work, I may just try ginger too if I have an opportunity to do so. There's both a Thai and Chinese restaurant in the same strip mall so aquiring some ginger should be no problem.

Maybe we can come up with a wholly UN-scientific approach to this. Lets say that if tastes good with fish, it must be good to cure parasitic infections. I know that I love steamed ginger tilapia and garlic with fish/shellfish is pretty delicious too. :lol:

***Disclaimer*** really, it was just a joke. Keep your pencil protectors on fellas. ;)
 
Threads last for ever, but Ich must die!

Threads last for ever, but Ich must die!

Do threads last forever too?

Kordon's "Ich attack" was the only thing that worked for me. Didn't hurt the 150 gal reef, didn't hurt the fish. It's been over one & a half years and the Ich has not returned.

-Larry
 
Back
Top