Potbelly Seahorse thoughts

Oddballs - I sent you a PM but stupidly left out my e-mail address. It is luvabunny2wm@wmconnect.com.

I have also e-mailed seahorse Australia with some specific questions re: the pots. My aim is to find out what height the seahorses actually need in order to breed. The basic rule of thumb is 3-4 times the outstretched length of the horse, which for a 12" horse is a minimum of 36", however, my 8-9" reidi actively bred in a regular 55g tank, which is only 18" tall, just over twice their outstretched length.

Since I only want a trio or 2 pair, I just can't see the need for a 90g or larger tank, if the 58 tall (21") that I already have will be sufficient. On the flip side, if they are going to require a minimum of 36" height to breed, maybe I should forget about breeding altogether and just keep the horses. It seems like such a waste tho, to have something so unique and not try to raise some babies. On the other hand, I do have a problem with having to get my snorkel equip out just to clean the tank......

I have also contacted kpk (Kyle) about his chiller. I think that is going to be my next major learning experience. These horses do best between 59-71 degrees. My tanks (55, 58 & 75) currently stay at about 76-78 year round, except for that crazy 44g hex I sold you Travis. It was a constant 71-72. How do you explain that? Anyway, I can probably drop that a few degrees with more water volume, a bubbler system, and an open top and fan, but that will still mean the chiller will have to cool at least 5 degrees to maintain these horses at their highest tolerance.

I have read that putting insulation around 3 sides of the tank will also help to keep it cool. Have you found that to be the case Doug? Do you think your tank stays cooler because of the foam on the bottom and sides? I think I will probably use no more than regular flourescents on the tank. Even if I can find corals which will tolerate the cooler temps, I don't think I want to risk bringing in any diseases, as most corals are adverse to a FW and formalin dip, which is what the inverts and macros will go thru before being added.

Well, when I hear back from either Jenks, Seahorse Australia, or Kyle with some more specific information, I will let everyone know.
Thanks for all the help thus far.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7435030#post7435030 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by luvabunny
I have read that putting insulation around 3 sides of the tank will also help to keep it cool.

While I don't know for sure, this sounds pretty reverse intuitive to me (i.e. WRONG). The ONLY way this is going to help is if you want to keep the aquarium water COOLER then the surrounding air. Usually I keep my house at abour 70, which is perfect for your potbellies.

Insulation is going to stop heat from going from an area of higher heat to one of lower heat. So if the outside air around my aquarium at home is 70 and my aquarium is 80, then insulation would ONLY keep heat IN the aquarium.

On the other hand, if my power went out, insulation would be AWESOME for keeping heat in. In FACT, I have heard that it is a good idea to have insulation pieces cut to the size of your tank walls so that you can quickly put them in place in case of an emergency. Again, the point being to keep heat IN.

Insulation in a house does 2 things. It keeps heat IN in the winter. And heat OUT in the summer.

Now, fan cooling will work spectacularly. However, it will also evaporate LOTS of water. I suspect your best bet on maintaining temperature is to (1) use a chiller and (2) avoid the heat in the first place.

The first part is easy. Buy a chiller and plumb it into the system. The second is more complicated. Extra heat is going to enter the system due to LIGHTING and PUMPS.

Concerning lighting. If you didn't plan to keep photosynthetic plants or critters, this would be easy - NO flourescent. However, since you probably will at least have plants, you'll need more light. I would SERIOUSLY suggest T5 HO lighting with plenty of ventilation built into the lighting system. That would either be with no canopy and no glass top and a light fixture that sat up with plenty of air space around it. Or with a canopy that incorporated a fan to move air through, venting the heat from the lights out of the canopy, rather then into the water.

Normally, I wouldn't even say fans are required in a T5 canopy. However, with the PLAN BEING to keep the water extra cool, I'd say that they would be a good idea. You'd also benefit from a little evaporative cooling.

Next, the Pumps. First, for a sump return pump, I would carefully reseach and find an external pump that does NOT use water to cool itself. If I remember right, some of these Eheim pumps qualify. And of course there are Iwakis and more. I might actually call MarineDepot customer support and ask some questions. Last time I did, they had EXCELLENT answers about pumps.

As far as circulatory pumps, a closed loop + manifold with another low heat transfer external pump would be a good plan, IMHO. I don't know exactly how much flow you would be wanting. Maybe the sump return would be enough.

Anyhow, just some thoughts - don't know if they are actually useful, :)

At rest, with no outside heat input, the water in the tank should cool to the temperature of the surrounding room, which should be pretty close to right. I'd say that by working to keep as much heat out of the water, and then maybe adding a chiller, this shouldn't be too tough.
 
April, i would have to say that if anything, it keeps it warmer. It's hard to say really though. My tank sits in an unairconditioned room, in an area of the house that has a flat roof over it. I have to run tons of fans in the summer time just to keep it at 81*.
 
We keep our AC at about 75, so once the chiller got it down to around 65, the insulation should help, right? I'm doing an experiment now to help me decide if I'm even going to need a chiller. I've placed 2 long wand bubblers in my current 75g horse tank to see if that is why the hex was always cooler. It is the only tank I ever ran an undergravel filter on, and my idea is the bubbles helped to move the water and keep it cooler. Tomorrow, I'll remove the glass lid, and see what that does for it, and over the weekend I may try a couple of fans to see how it goes.

Don't worry about my current horses. New research is proving that we have been keeping them too warm all along, and that 72* is actually ideal for most warm water species. It helps to control bacterial outbreaks, keeps more oxygen in the water and promotes general healthiness. And, the old bubble in the pouch problem is also being proven to be due not to bubbles in the tank, but micro-organisms in the pouch. A moot point anyway, since I now only have females.

I heard back from Seahorse Australia, and while he says the pots can be kept in a 55g tank, he recommends I go with the 90g tall. I am unsure of why exactly, unless it is only because of the height, but I have e-mailed him back with more questions. The 75g I currently have has only 3 erectus in it now, and I search for them constantly. I can't believe I would ever even see 4 horses in a 90g. Of course, I am also looking into another cold-water species - h. breviceps - which he says can be housed with the pots, so there's a good chance it will be more than just 4 horses.

Also, I heard back from Kyle. His chiller is a 1/4 hp Pacific Coast from Custom Aquatics. He says it is on his 75g and keeps it about 82, but apparently he has some awesome lighting or something which makes his tank REALLY hot! He's very happy with it, and believes it would keep either the 58 or 75 plenty cool. He also says it's quieter than a CSL (I don't know what this is) and puts off less heat. Anyone have anything to say about this chiller or company?

Off I go to visit more links......
 
Doesnt Tampa Bay Saltwater have a cold water reef tank set up at their facility? I could of sworn it was their website that talked about the cold water tank. Might be worth looking into.
 
Hey, April. I ran across this fish today on MD Live and thought it was beautiful. Then I noticed it's comments on requiring cooler waters and thought of your upcoming tank.

Catalina Goby (Lythrypnus dalli)
marinedepotlive_1895_3653041

http://www.marinedepotlive.com/catalina-goby---lythrypnus-dalli-fish--gobies.html
 
They are indeed beautiful fish, but somewhat picky for a seahorse tank, if I'm remembering correctly.

After spending far too much of my vacation time on research, I think I am going to shelf the potbelly idea for now. I simply don't think I can put as large of a tank as they need in my mobile home and feel safe. The more reading I do, and the more I speak with other potbelly owners, a 90g tall is about the minimum size requirement, with over 125g preferred. I simply can't go that heavy.

Also, after reviewing my current tank situation, there's just too many of 'em! I spend far more time taking care of and feeding than I do enjoying them. I think I'm going to stick with my current 75g seahorse tank (but may even downsize that one) and sell the rest.

I appreciate all the help and links you've all pointed me to. Without them, I couldn't have come to an informed decision. Now I feel that I have made the correct one - the one that is best for the horses.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464871#post7464871 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by captbunzo
Hey, April. I ran across this fish today on MD Live and thought it was beautiful. Then I noticed it's comments on requiring cooler waters and thought of your upcoming tank.

Catalina Goby (Lythrypnus dalli)
I believe they need temps in the mid 55's. But they sure are pretty. I have also looked at them.
 
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