Potential controversy

[logans_daddy]

Ok...i missed the whole QT discussion at the meeting...i really wish i didnt have to duck out early.

I just want to add my two cents to this whole issue.

i used to QT now i dont. I feel like i lost more fish by putting them in a 10g with a pvc elbow for a month than i would without QT. Also, a 10g is much more prone to crashing...especially one that is not up and running constantly...i was monitoring the thing every day. constantly testing, vaccumiing, water changes etc.

Its not a good environment for a stressed fish. Here is what i do and stick by it fully.

I drip acclimate my fish in a container with a lid for about 4 hrs. I then put them in my fuge for anywher between a cpl of days to a week max. A lot of parasites are present in your tank anyways and outbreaks are more of an indication of poor husbandry than anything.

Even though the fuge shares the same water, with healthy fish in the display tank, top quailty water conditions, good flow, and activated carbon i personally feel there is little to no chance of an infection spreading from my fuge to my display. And if i did i would suspect that the fish in the display was already weak and or sick.
About 4 months ago i got a royal gramma mail order. The fish literally laid on the bottom of my fuge for a full day without moving. I thought for sure he was a goner, i even thought he was dead and went to remove him but had him take off. After a day or two he was upright and moving a little but not very active or eating. I then noticed what looked like ich on his nose and one side. I simply increased the water flow to my fuge and left him. I never considered medicating him. He is now one of my healthiest and most active fish. My clown that ive had for almost two years came in with a bacterial infection. I treated the same way and he is doing fine.

Ive been on the fourm for almost 4 years. No one can point to a posting of mine about sick fish because ive never had any(only new fish that come sick).

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if i threw my royal gramma in a 10g QT that he would be dead now. No doubt.

I know this opinion is in the minority, but for me the proof is in the pudding. Ive been keeping fish for almost four years, and except for maybe my first six months, i have never had a fish develop a disease in my display tank.

It seems to me that the same people posts threads about sick fish over and over. Maybe im lucky, maybe its a disaster waiting to happen, i dont know, i only know it works for me and ive got two fish in my display that have overcome disease and are beautiful, healthy active fish today.

Corals are different. Obviously this method would not be sufficient for pests. For now i just trust mike not to give me any pests with his frags

 

[Gordonious]

Hey sorry, I typed out a response on my lap top which decided to random shut off on me. I wish you had been able to hear the discussion as we addressed a couple of the issues you bring up. Unfortunately I can't type the response again right now as I really should be working on some stupid economics HW that was due yesterday. (my last thread started off saying that I would love to respond a great deal as an avoidance technique because I'd rather talk reef then analyze marginal value product vs marginal factor cost curves.)

Sometime in the next month I will try to post on the DRC website my opinions as well as references and links to several good sources of information.

Fact is there are a lot of opinions on this issue and unfortunately a lot of the opinions are formed on myths rather then facts.

JG

 

[logans_daddy]

well...my experience has been with this hobby that a lot of "facts" are often subjective conjecture. I only consider fact to be something performed rigoursly using scientific method with multiple controls. And even then there is plenty of wiggle room. A lot of "facts" that are thrown around are not facts at all and people that refer to scholarly literature is often misleading as well since the scale is often not the same(ocean vs hobby).

my approach is very simple and passive.

Im very careful in my fish selection to begin with.

I am very meticulous with my acclimation.

I dont medicate my fish.

I provide ideal conditions for my fish to thrive.

I "QT" new fish in a natural environment that i believe actively aids in the fish's recovery time.

I have read many articles that substantiate the fact that a lot of parasites and other nasty things are ubquitious in a saltwater tank, and that the presence of the disease is often an indication of poor fish health or water quality or just bad husbandry in general. To me this is obvious. otherwise how would you explain a fish that has been in a display tank for a long time contracting a disease with no new additions? It happens all of the time.

I think QT adds undue stress to the fish and your simply trying to avoid something that exists on some level in your tank anyways.


I will make a distinciton. I do feel that having a "hospital tank" to remove a sick fish from your display to aid in recovery just makes good sense. Ive never had to do this, but if one of my fish was to show signs of disease i would remove him and put him in a container seperate from my display that did not share water.

Another distinction would be between pests and disease. I am only talking about disease. I believe that if you look under your tank or in your fish room and you have bottle after bottle of fish medication then maybe your doing something wrong. Im by no means a pro, but i think my experience isnt simply luck.

shawn