Powder blue tang - Brooklynella or Velvet?

[02tts]

So I got this guy on 9.20 and has been QT since. This morning, I woke up to this, literally happened overnight. So, do we think it's brook or velvet?

https://vimeo.com/189019106

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[vhuang168]

Looks more like ich to me.


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[02tts]

Hmm. Look at his gills and breathing, there's a film hanging off, I don't think it's ich and ich wouldn't have that film like stuff...also, he can barely breathe as you can see, ich doesn't normally attack to that level where the fish can't breathe.


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[02tts]

Here is a side pic.
There's no way this is just ich.

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[02tts]

Here's another video.
By the way, water quality is perfect for lack of a better term.

https://vimeo.com/189028047


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[snorvich]

Velvet

 

[02tts]

Man, every fish I've bought so far has come with it. This guy has set in a never before used QT. Fish that I've bought have all come from live aquaria. He was purchased on the 20th.

Just treated with CP, hopefully he makes it. Amazing how quick the stuff works, he was fine yesterday.


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[sanchoy]

Not ick, I agree velvet. I purchased a few fish from live as week with velvet. Don't trust anything.


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[ThRoewer]

Velvet

Where do you see Amyloodinium in those pictures?

To me it looks like a textbook case of Cryptocaryon, including the lesions where trophonts detached. The nodules also seem too large for Amyloodinium.

Cryptocaryon will as well infect the gills and cause rapid breathing and sliming.

A CP treatment is definitely a good idea, though I would combine it with either hyposalinity or TTM

 

[microlady]

I'm voting crypto on this one. Did you perform TTM or any other treatment on the fish? It's strange it took over a month to show up on a PBT. It could be velvet too. These two parasites travel together.

 

[02tts]

No ttm, not setup for it. He's the first fish on this QT so whatever it is came with him and like I said he was fine 24 hours ago, not a speckle and swimming around. I don't know if he's going to make it. He's just laying at the bottom of the tank, heavy breathing. May be too late for him.


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[ThRoewer]

Lower the salinity right away! 1.016 will do, though I would go all the way to 1.009 to be in the therapeutic range.

The fish likely came infected and a sterile QT is an ideal propagation ground for Cryptocaryon (and most other parasites) since there is nothing that may eat the protomonts.

The 5 days you had the fish also matches the infection wave you are seeing now.

Did you give that fish a formalin or freshwater dip?
Did you add the water from the shipping bag to the QT?

 

[ThRoewer]

BTW, I would still treat with CP to cover all bases.

 

[02tts]

Lower the salinity right away! 1.016 will do, though I would go all the way to 1.009 to be in the therapeutic range.



The fish likely came infected and a sterile QT is an ideal propagation ground for Cryptocaryon (and most other parasites) since there is nothing that may eat the protomonts.



The 5 days you had the fish also matches the infection wave you are seeing now.



Did you give that fish a formalin or freshwater dip?

Did you add the water from the shipping bag to the QT?

5 days...I've had the fish since 9.20, over a month ago now and he was 100% fine yesterday. To me it appears to be velvet given how quick its acting, etc.

No water was added to the QT from the store, yes did a freshwater dip but hasn't made a diff to his behavior. Whatever it is it came with the fish.


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[ThRoewer]

He was for sure not 100% fine yesterday - those nodules didn't come out of thin air.

Also, the nodules are too large for Amyloodinium, but spot on in size and appearance for Cryptocaryon.

As for it coming all of the sudden - you likely have missed previous waves.
In a tank without predators for protozoan and with a fish without immunity the multiplication rate can create quite an avalanche:

1.) 1*256 -> 2.) 256*256 -> 3.) 65,536

The 3rd wave would be lethal to most fish.

Even if you calculate in losses of 3/4 for the parasites, the 4th wave will still be lethal:

1.) 1*64 -> 2.) 64*64 -> 3.) 4,096*64 -> 4.) 262,144

The first waves can easily go undetected.

 

[02tts]

He was for sure not 100% fine yesterday - those nodules didn't come out of thin air.



Also, the nodules are too large for Amyloodinium, but spot on in size and appearance for Cryptocaryon.



As for it coming all of the sudden - you likely have missed previous waves.

In a tank without predators for protozoan and with a fish without immunity the multiplication rate can create quite an avalanche:



1.) 1*256 -> 2.) 256*256 -> 3.) 65,536



The 3rd wave would be lethal to most fish.



Even if you calculate in losses of 3/4 for the parasites, the 4th wave will still be lethal:



1.) 1*64-> 2.) 64*64 -> 3.) 4,096*64 -> 4.) 262,144



The first waves can easily go undetected.

I've been looking at him daily multiple times per day and two days ago he had nothing visible on him. Obviously he was infected but not visually noticeable until yesterday.


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[supscribe]

I don't think the fish are coming with it probably got tank is infected and will continue to kill your fish as long as there is a host

 

[ThRoewer]

I've been looking at him daily multiple times per day and two days ago he had nothing visible on him. Obviously he was infected but not visually noticeable until yesterday.


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He must have had behavioral symptoms like scratching, fin flicking and maybe breathing a bit heavier than he should.

I have 3 Grammas that have ich for a year and a half now and you don't see much besides them scratching once in a while and sometimes sporting a spot on a fin.

 

[Mishri]

yeah.. ich can hide for sure.. only reason I knew something was wrong with my PBT was he was swimming in odd circles, not a typical behavior as I had him for 2 years. Then he started really acting up, swimming straight into the lid of the aquarium, straight down through the sand.. he had ich in his gills and was freaking out from it.. didn't see the spots appear for a week. (introduced from water from a different tank with a clownfish that never showed symptoms) the clownfish in the tank with him never got physical symptoms.