President89 breeding diary

president89

New member
I set up some 10g tanks in December and bought two larger pairs of Ocellaris from a local board. If i were to do it again I probably would have gone with Juveniles, but needless to say, I love both pairs.

My setup is as follows.

3 10G tanks
each has:
75w Jager submersible heater
Whisper ex45 HOB filter
Egg Crate covering the top of the tank
1 15G tank with the same setup as above
48" two bulb shoplight


Currently two are "out of commission but still running. One the pair of fish died suddenly and I think it was because I'm doing FO bare bottom tank, with just a clay pot and two tiles(1 is there just to hold the other from sliding), and I think a cleaned the pot and tiles, and removed the filter media in the same cleaning. That doesn't leave too many other places for the bacteria to grow. The other, I basically started up, thought i'd use it as a fry tank, and well, I didn't get any eggs, so it's just sitting there wasting electricity.

For the first few months, I just had three different types of food. Two different kinds of flakes, and a pellet. About a month ago, I made my own food (shrimp, calamari, scallops, tilapia, spirulina powder, cod liver oil, vitachem, and Selcon.) I typically do 2 feedings a day. One right when the lights come on 6:30am, and then one about 10 hours later 4:30pm to feed the home made food as much as possible, but alot of times, it's one flake/pellet feeding and one home made feeding per day.

My light schedule is 16 hours a day. 6:30am-10:30pm.

So on Sunday, I was feeding my fish and to my surprise I saw some eggs on my clay pot. I must have missed them for a couple days, because they hatched last night, so they had to be there before, I just didn't see them. At first, I thought the male clown was eating the eggs, but it looked like he was trying to help them hatch. I've never read about that, but he was nudging them with his nose, and that's when I noticed some fry sort of floating through the tank, at first I was wondering what these small white looking things are, so that's when I figured out the male wasn't eating the eggs. They died over night, They kept getting picked up by my filter which turns the water over quite a bit. It's rated for 40G, but another member recommeded it because it really doesn't leave too much waste settling at the bottom. Needless to say they kept getting sucked up, and spitted back out.

So, when I first started this whole setup, I bought and read some books. Clownfishes, by Joyce D. Wilkerson, Anenome Fishes and their Host Sea Anemones , by Fautin and Allen, Conditioning, spawing and rearing of Fish with emphasis on Marine Clownfish, by Frank H. Hoff, and The Complete Illustrated Breeders Guide to Marine Aquarium Fishes, by Wittenrich.

I know I've read Wilkerson's book cover to cover probably twice. The others I've just scanned through, reading about things I had questions on. The hardest part for me is, that these books are 10+ years old , except for the breeders guide, and the product recommendations are obsolete, or they've changed names.

Here is my first question. I realize now that I'm going to need to culture some rotifers. And to do that, I'm going to need to feed them phytoplankton. I see now that you can buy the food for rotifers in concentration instead of culturing green water to feed to rotifers. Since I'm not a full production scale breeder. I was hoping to get 3 sets of breeding pairs. Right now, I have one. Does anyone recommend just buying the rotifer food, and just culturing the rotifers? I was looking at the sticky in this thread, and I saw a neat DIY culturing setup, that would allow me to do green water, rotifers, and baby brine shrimp all in one setup using PVC, airline, gang valves, etc found here. That just seems like it's going to take up more space. I'm already realizing that If i'm going to be raising fry, there's going to probably be some additional rubber tubs on my floor for grow out tanks. I'm really just looking for some advice. Obviously, the culturing of Phytoplankton is going to be cheaper than buying it, but it's got to be so much more time consuming.

Unfortunately, my camera isn't very good at taking photos of fish, so I wasn't able to capture the fry.

One additional question. I'm constantly scraping green algae off of my walls, pots, and tiles. it is a two bulb fixture. Should I go with shorter light periods, or just pull the lights away further? It's kind of a hassle to scrub every inch of the tank every week. Would a protein skimmer help out? I know that algae tends to bloom when you have a lot of nitrates in the tank. Without live rock, I really don't have anything removing the nitrates, aside from water changes.
 
I have 3 pairs with only one breeding right now. I use rotifer deit but might switch to nano next order.

http://rotifersolutions.com/?page_id=13

As far as the algae I wouldnt worry about it every week I am sure the clowns arent the worried either.

It gets kinda ugly. I can barely see them sometimes.

Actually one of the inactive tanks, probably is full of phytoplankton. The water is totally green. I can't even see through it. NOthing is in there right now, I need to clean that up though.
 
Perfect use some of that for your green water in your larval tank. Some have even said phyto in the water helps clowns begin spawning.
 
There are now a ton of ways to raise clown fish... I personally wouldnt use that water from the other tank JMO. Who knows whats in it...


What I would do is get some rotifers either from a local breeder/club or online. You can order from reed mariculture. They also have the proven rotifer diet HD or their new algae pastes to feed the rotifers. IMO, with the avail. of algae pastes today, there is really no need to culture live nano as it is no where near as nutritious as the better pastes that are out there. With the pastes, a few drops replace an entire 2 litre of live nano.

For feeding the fry after the rotifer stage, some do BBS, but alot of people are skipping the BBS and going to a dry larve weaning diet. I use otohime which you can get from reed as well. If you cann you can get a smaller size then listed on their website at under $15 last time I checked.

If you can get somewhat close to Albany,NY, I can give you enough rotifers to get started and a little bit of Rotifer Diet HD. Again, enough to get you started. I can also give you a bit of otohime size A. PM me if you can meet somewhere close to me.
 
For the algae, You can do a few things. A Skimmer would be a good addition, but for the small bioload there, a refug/cheato might be a really good addition in a sep. tank/sump. For my growout system, I have a RDSB and just installed a small Algae scrubber.

But as stated earlier, the algae will not hurt the adults and may actually help export nutrients. Also if it is covering the sides of an unpainted tank, helps to give them privacy. One of my small display/broodstock tanks is almost completely covered in coraline algae front to back.

Good luck!
 
I think I will stay away from adding the water
from the green tank into my spawning tank. I'm not sure what's in there. I'm going to explore algae paste and just culturing my own Rotifers. I also need to start up a fry raising tank.
 
Here is my first question. I realize now that I'm going to need to culture some rotifers. And to do that, I'm going to need to feed them phytoplankton. I see now that you can buy the food for rotifers in concentration instead of culturing green water to feed to rotifers. Since I'm not a full production scale breeder. I was hoping to get 3 sets of breeding pairs. Right now, I have one. Does anyone recommend just buying the rotifer food, and just culturing the rotifers? I was looking at the sticky in this thread, and I saw a neat DIY culturing setup, that would allow me to do green water, rotifers, and baby brine shrimp all in one setup using PVC, airline, gang valves, etc found here. That just seems like it's going to take up more space. I'm already realizing that If i'm going to be raising fry, there's going to probably be some additional rubber tubs on my floor for grow out tanks. I'm really just looking for some advice. Obviously, the culturing of Phytoplankton is going to be cheaper than buying it, but it's got to be so much more time consuming.

My two cents on this question. I culture my rotifers using the prepared rotifer concentrates. I do this purely out of convenience, it's really a snap. In my case I can get a rotifer culture and 6 months worth of food for under 100 bucks shipped. This method requires only minutes a day to feed and maintain.

One additional question. I'm constantly scraping green algae off of my walls, pots, and tiles. it is a two bulb fixture. Should I go with shorter light periods, or just pull the lights away further? It's kind of a hassle to scrub every inch of the tank every week. Would a protein skimmer help out? I know that algae tends to bloom when you have a lot of nitrates in the tank. Without live rock, I really don't have anything removing the nitrates, aside from water changes.

Welcome to the club! I clean the tanks each week. It is a pain. I do however have all the tanks plumbed to a central sump with bio balls and a protein skimmer to try and help the cause but the algae is still ever present. I have tossed several hermits and snails into my broodstock tanks to try and help, but again, there is still algae to scrub.

Kurt
 
My two cents on this question. I culture my rotifers using the prepared rotifer concentrates. I do this purely out of convenience, it's really a snap. In my case I can get a rotifer culture and 6 months worth of food for under 100 bucks shipped. This method requires only minutes a day to feed and maintain.

So, your talking buying algae paste as food, and a rotifer culture. What kind of container do you use to culture them?

Welcome to the club! I clean the tanks each week. It is a pain. I do however have all the tanks plumbed to a central sump with bio balls and a protein skimmer to try and help the cause but the algae is still ever present. I have tossed several hermits and snails into my broodstock tanks to try and help, but again, there is still algae to scrub.

Kurt
I'm thinking my crazy shoplight needs to be downgraded to a single bulb. Normally a FO tank comes with one of those single strip lights.. well I have a shoplight with twice the wattage. Seems a little un-needed with no live rock etc.
 
To be specific I use RotiferDiet to feed the rotifers in a 2 gallon bucket. I run a couple buckets.

I have been using the 2x32 watt T5's (from HomeDepot) on an 8 or 9 hour cycle over my broodstock tanks.
 
To be specific I use RotiferDiet to feed the rotifers in a 2 gallon bucket. I run a couple buckets.

I have been using the 2x32 watt T5's (from HomeDepot) on an 8 or 9 hour cycle over my broodstock tanks.

Thanks for the details. Now to find some black tubs to put fry in and to setup a spot for some rotifer culture. Buckets, huh. That's cool. I was thinking 10g tank, but buckets sound easier and cheaper.

Darn shoplight.. the plastic clips were loose on one bulb.. broke off.. then melted because of the flickering. I cut the wires and hard wired them to each other since these cheapy shoplights are like the old christmas tree lights. If one bulb goes out. both go out and or removed. Worked like a charm. Maybe this will help lower the algae. Probably not.

I was reading a thread in rareclownfish.com that led me to http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic89570-4-1.aspx. Now that looks awesome. I feel like, if I decrease my water changes without spending a ton of money, that would awesome. I think i'd have to make a closed loop system though. I wouldn't want to construct 4 of those things.
 
I know of another local person to me that uses the ATS with great success of keeping water quality up. I just installed one on my growout in a 55G sump.

One thing to keep in mind is, even know it will keep your water quality testing good, you should still do water changes to replace trace elements and such. JMO...

Buckets for the rotifer cultures work wonders. I use the grey ones from Lowes, but any dark walled one will do.

For lighting on my growout out system, its a double T5 light with one bulb removed. 2 bulbs seemed to build up too much algae and uses more electricity...
 
6/21... the first time I noticed the eggs. I thought they were up to something. I was looking across my cellar in the dark with binoculars and the male clown and female clown were hanging out in their pot swimming around. They weren't really doing anything that looked like spawning, but i was thinking maybe they were getting ready.

Due to the color of the eggs versus the orange clay pot, they are very tough to spot. I'm not sure if these are a good color egg or not. I feed them the frozen recipe found here with some extras like spirulina powder selcon and vitachem atleast once a day.. and then if I don't do a second feeding with the frozen, I alternate between a pellet and two different types of flakes.

 
I just got my rotifers from Reed Mariculture. Put them in an apple juice container.. roughly 2 liters. I was lucky to find that rigid tubing at Petsmart on clearance for .29 for 2 feet. I've got a hole drilled in the cap, with the rod going through it. I totally went overkill with my air pump. It's a rena 400. I suppose if I want to culture my own green water, put air in my fry tank, and the rotifers, I should be good to go. I think they will hatch later this week, or monday.
 
That apple container seems kind of small for a rotifer culture. I think most people I have talked to use 5G buckets for their cultures. The darker the bucket the better it seems. Also for the rotifiers, there is no need to light them and actually do better with less light.
 
That apple container seems kind of small for a rotifer culture. I think most people I have talked to use 5G buckets for their cultures. The darker the bucket the better it seems. Also for the rotifiers, there is no need to light them and actually do better with less light.

I'm still using the apple juice containers. I need to buy an extra 5g bucket, i use one for water changes, and the other for throwing my dirty tank decorations in(aka flower pots and tiles). I think i'll grab a bucket tomorrow. I want to have enough rotifers on hand! Thanks John
 
Ok, well today is day 7(possibly 8 because I first saw the eggs on 6/21.

I setup a 10g tank. With my extra 75w heater facing horizontal. I took 2.5 gallons from that 2.5 tank that I setup for larvae.. which was originally from the broodstock, and then I took another 2.5g from the broodstock tank and filled my larvae tank up to 5g total. I removed the flower pot from the broodstock tank and put it in my new larvae tank replacing the flower pot in broodstock with a nice new clean one. My two clowns didn't look too happy.

I thought of something I hadn't read in any books. I know flower pots are difficult to aerate and breeders prefer tiles.. for obvious reason. My flower pot comes with a drain hole in the middle(not sure if all of them do?). So I saw that, looked at my HOB filter that would surely suck up my larvae in the broodstock tank and decided.... that little hole is big enough for an airline. I fed my airline through it, adjusted the eggs so that they were between 2 and 5 o'clock and added an airstone right in the middle of the flower pot. The bubbles go straight up, and they don't touch the eggs, but they do get the eggs to do the wiggle that is normally orchestrated by my clowns fanning them. Needless to say they are hatching as we speak. I need to read up on how many bubbles per second I should have post hatch. If anyone wants to comment on that, I would appreciate it.

I took about .5 liter of my rotifers.. and dumped the rotifer diet/rotifer mix right into the tank. I'm still waiting for my sieve to come in the mail. Is it a good idea to have the rotifer diet dumped in with the rotifers? I was thinking that maybe the rotifers would be able to feed on the rotifer diet and actually multiple in the larvae tank allowing me to feed less rotifers per day.. since I'm not available for the 9-5 schedule during the day. I wish I could take a picture of the pot with the airstone, but I think everyone gets the picture.

I used someone's idea in my larvae thread
One of my wife's dark gray bath towels and 3 clothespins. That's what I'm using on my larval latzonatus tank. Bath towels can handle the wetness from spilling beer or saltwater on them :) a little better than cardboard or paper products. I also dislike the effect of spills on black trashbags which were my first option. The water between the bags and the glass creates a horrible reflection. After I found the secret stash of dark gray hand towels, I never looked back.

I bought a black bath towel at kmart for like 5 bucks. Wrapped it around 3 sides of my larvae tank.. and it's smack up against another tank that has that particular wall painted black. I'm holding it up there with little black binder clips. In the future, I will paint the tank walls black. I'm also using a USPS priority shirt box.. to cover the top =). I'll slide the box over a little to let a little light in tomorrrow from my overhead lighting in the basement. I'm excited to see how many I have tomorrow morning. Atleast ill be able to count the death toll since there's nothing in there to suck up the larvae.

One last thing to mention. Don't bother trying to clean the bare bottom of a 10g tank with one of those 50ft python siphon kit. There isn't enough suction in that large diameter gravel cleaner. I went to petco and bought the smallest siphon kit i could. Its got a smaller diameter so there's a little more suction so I can the bottom of the tank.
 
For adding rotifers with the fry. You want to add algae to the water. The rotifers gut load every 4 hours or so. The algae is what makes the rotifers nutritious to the fry. So 4 hours after adding them, with no algae in the water, the fry are eating empty rotifers and will starve. Also you water to add a drop of ammonia lock(Amquel plus for me) reed sells a product they use for this as well.

For now while you are waiting on your rotifer seive, you can use a paper coffee filter to sep. the rotifers from the rotifer water. Just dump the water into the filter and when your done, just swish the coffee filter in the tank water. I used this method for about 9 months before I got my seive.

I do not remote hatch but have studied breeding and anything related to it for years now. My understanding is you want the bubbles touching the eggs and a little rough on them. Once they hatch remove the pot/tile and turn down the air. Hopse all your hatched for you. Post hatch, You want a little bit of flow. If the top of the water looks like boiling water, it needs to be turned down.

For cleaning the bottom of the tanks, I use a vinyl tube one size up from airline tube. You can get airline tubing really cheap at lowes and home depot.
 
For adding rotifers with the fry. You want to add algae to the water. The rotifers gut load every 4 hours or so. The algae is what makes the rotifers nutritious to the fry. So 4 hours after adding them, with no algae in the water, the fry are eating empty rotifers and will starve. Also you water to add a drop of ammonia lock(Amquel plus for me) reed sells a product they use for this as well.

For now while you are waiting on your rotifer seive, you can use a paper coffee filter to sep. the rotifers from the rotifer water. Just dump the water into the filter and when your done, just swish the coffee filter in the tank water. I used this method for about 9 months before I got my seive.
How do you accomplish this with just a paper coffee filter? How do you support the coffee filter? Are you using the base the coffee filter normally sits in? I suppose I could use my round metal strainer to hold the coffee filter in place.

Hopse all your hatched for you. Post hatch, You want a little bit of flow. If the top of the water looks like boiling water, it needs to be turned down.

How much is a good flow to aerate the larvae tank post hatch?

PS... I started a 5g rotifer culture. I think it's a much better idea than that apple juice container. Now to get some better air manifolds... I need a bunch because if you T off two lines.. if one line is longer than the other.. or if one tub is in deeper water than the other, the air goes to the easiest path. Ughh..
 
Got my ebay sieve in the mail today. I need to re-read the rotifer sections of my books. I need to figure out just how much I need to feed these little devils. I'm doing much better than the first time. I see a few dead here and there, but there's still plenty live ones.
 
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