Preventative Cupramine QT & ich life cycle

[tylorarm]

I now put all potential new additions through QT with cupramine from introduction, adding prazipro the last 6 day. My QT runs full time with or without fish, always with copper. My QT has sand, some live rock, a couple large aquaclear filters, and a sizable skimmer. I turn the skimmer off with prazi but otherwise leave running. It seems pretty easy now to keep Cu level fairly constant despite all the sand and a few rocks, this may be helped because my topoff has kalk to keep PH up.

My concern is this is sort of a chemotheropy and i'd like to limit the fish's time a.m.a.p. in QT. Cupramine instructions suggest 14 day treatment, and i assume that's for confirmed cases of ich. The fish i have in QT have not had visible signs of ich. If you look at the life cycle of Cryptocaryon it appears only the tomont stage carried in the gills is a worry(?), as trophonts in the sand are either left behind when i transfer the fish to DT or killed when they become free swimmers. The question i guess is it reasonable to assume the Cu immune cysts on the fish and out of the reach of cupramine can outlast the 2 wk QT?

 

[Gwynhidwy]

Trophonts (feeding stage) are only attached for 3-7 days at normal reef tank temperatures, so they should detach at some point during your planned two week quarantine.

Tomonts (reproductive stage) are not found in the gills of the fish, but on hard surfaces like substrate.

I completely understand your desire to limit your fish's exposure to copper, but the problem with taking a fish out of quarantine after only two weeks is that treatments are not always effective and if something gets missed it will then be in your DT. Is there a reason you don't want to pull the copper from the water after treatment and then redose when you get a new fish? A period of observation after treatment and prior to moving the fish to the DT would be safer.

 

[tylorarm]

Thanks for the clarification. The reason i don't want to leave in QT is because i'm concerned about a couple fish that normally don't do well in QT. Mostly concerned with an 8" Achilles tang. You can see the problem though, ich magnet but does poorly in QT (40gl long 80gl total water for QT). The sooner he's into my 480gl reef DT (900gl or so total water). Sounds like the 14 days copper & 6 prazi should be good for most common diseases, other than brook i suppose but it probably would show by then. Sure don't want to cut corners though.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

With an Achilles those are very reasonable concerns. I also keep live rock and sand in my quarantine and I find it helps fish settle in a lot, so I think it will help you as well. With a two week treatment you should be reasonably safe and unless the Achilles you get is very small, I agree that a 40G might be small enough to cause stress. If the fish comes in with Brook you will almost certainly see it before two weeks is up, it usually kills fairly quickly in aquariums.

For what its worth, I have found 6 days of prazi to not be enough and have used prazi in combination with Cupramine with no trouble. You might consider extending your prazi rounds to two 7 day treatments with a large water change in between, since the fish will be being treated longer than 6 days anyway.

 

[tylorarm]

I'll go with the 7 days prazi as you suggest. I too have faith that prazi cupramine combo not an issue. However, with prazi i have to turn off skimmer and i've been feeding heavy trying to wean the fish off live clams and bloodworms (oddly enough the achilles is a pig for bloodworms, eats clams from the half shell but seems little interested in fresh caulerpa or dried seaweed). Trying hard to get QT fish to eat spectrum pellets but no luck so far.

 

[Gwynhidwy]

I actually use the prazi for two 7 day courses, a total of 14 days treatment. If your qt relies heavily on skimming for filtration I can see how that might not work in your situation.

Have you tried soaking both the nori and the pellets in Selcon? I've had good luck with that. Some fish like crushed garlic too, though I've had as many dislike it as eat it. Also, have you tried more than just the green nori? Often when I get new herbivores they will only eat one type. If you aren't already, you might also try attaching the nori to a rock instead of a clip on the glass.

 

[tylorarm]

Yes, i've tried both selcon and garlic, doesn't seem to help. Only green nori so far and the fresh caulerpa from my DT (bad stuff to have in DT, it's c. nummularia, not sure how i got it). I'll try some brown or red nori but have to go buy it.

 

[wooden_reefer]

Thanks for the clarification. The reason i don't want to leave in QT is because i'm concerned about a couple fish that normally don't do well in QT. Mostly concerned with an 8" Achilles tang. You can see the problem though, ich magnet but does poorly in QT (40gl long 80gl total water for QT). The sooner he's into my 480gl reef DT (900gl or so total water). Sounds like the 14 days copper & 6 prazi should be good for most common diseases, other than brook i suppose but it probably would show by then. Sure don't want to cut corners though.

Do you have nitrification in QT? How have you been ridding the QT water of ammonia in the past two weeks?

Ammonia in QT during treatment against ich is 100% (zero ammonia) and 100% of the time preventable. Stress from ammonia, any ammonia, in QT during treatment against ich can be a cause of "stress in QT".

Some fish well not do well in a small QT even if the setup is right. Too small a QT (too large a fish) or the wrong choice of fish for the newbie. Newbies in general should choose fish that will eat well in a rather small tank.

I don't ever have any motivation to cut short a QT procedure to eradicate ich. I do at least eight weeks in general. First, I know very well the grave concern and the necessity. Second, I prepare the QT very well in advance of any QT; this includes absolutely cycling the medium for QT very well in advance.

I can QT many fish in the same QT at once. Nitrification is never a concern in QT against ich no matter how many fish I have in the QT; there will never be ammonia during treatment against ich in my QT.

I do very little work during QT. No or little water change for all eight or more weeks.

 

[tylorarm]

Wooden reefer; I have no ammonia issues in QT as have run my QT with and without fish constant 3 months, have 2" sand bed and some live rock in 20gl and 40gl (both longs) both hooked to a 30gl sump (shared). I have an aquaclear 110 and a aquaclear 90 filters on respective QT tanks. I have GSM 4+ skimmer in the sump, and also large sponge that the returns from the 2 QT tanks go through. The 40gl long is ok for most fish for a month or two, but the achilles i really should have a bigger QT for swimming room to alleviate stress, so wanted to cut the QT time short as possible. The achilles is eating, although selectively, but non-stop swimming makes the 40gl long look pretty tiny and stresses both he and I. Also of note, i do a large W/C from main tank into QT at end of QT to acclimate fish to DT but quickly bring copper levels up to .3 and leave there until new fish arrive (i figure if i keep Cu and PH levels up the rocks and sand stay saturated and easier to keep Cu levels stable. Other than the 50% plus at end of QT i don't do W/C's as water stays pretty clean and i hate fixing medicine levels and stressing fish with W/C while in QT.

 

[tylorarm]

I would also add that i check Cu levels regularly with both Seachem & Salifert tests against a known sample at recommended 0.5 level.