Preventative medication and QT talk

[EnderG60]

Ok Since my crash last year and since my first fish added to my new system got ich within a week(after a 4 week QT period) I have decided to QT and treat all new fish prior to adding them.

My first fish batch is basically tangs and clown fish which are being treated with Quinine sulphate for a week(or two) followed by 4 weeks of hypo(1.008)

I was thinking of adding metronidazole to the regiment. Good idea or no?

Also Id like the next batch to be anthias, wrasses and some watanabie angles. Is there something else I might do different for those then tangs? Im especially worried about swim bladder problems with the watanabies.

So whats your preventative medication process?

 

[b0bab0ey]

So whats your preventative medication process?

All of my fish get 2 rounds of Prazipro, followed by 4 weeks of Chloroquine phosphate. Sometimes I'll reverse this if I suspect external parasite treatment is more urgent. And I substitute Coppersafe for CP when QT'ing wrasses; just had a couple of bad experiences using CP on wrasses. I keep antibiotics on hand (Furan-2) but don't use it unless needed.

I wouldn't use Metro on a fish unless I deemed it absolutely necessary. That stuff can be pretty harsh.

 

[EnderG60]

I just started reading about Chloroquine phosphate and that its "nicer" on fish then the quinine. Is the 4 week treatment with CP the same as the 1 week treatment with QS? And once said treatment is over is there any reason to do Hypo?

any experience with wrasses?

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm just learning the ropes with the quinine drugs; I've used copper for years and am very comfortable with it. Chloroquine phosphate sounds great, I'm getting ready to try it. However, I'm not convinced that CP kills 100% of ich in all of its cycles. I think it will get all the free swimming ich, like copper does. For that reason, I doubt that just two weeks of CP is adequate, I'm going to use 4 weeks. Unless someone who knows the med well (hint, hint) convinces me otherwise.

RE: The OP. I don't think 4 weeks is long enough for a total QT time, regardless of method. I think 6 weeks is the absolute minimum. Four weeks is barely one normal ich cycle and ich doesn't play by the rules.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I just started reading about Chloroquine phosphate and that its "nicer" on fish then the quinine. Is the 4 week treatment with CP the same as the 1 week treatment with QS? And once said treatment is over is there any reason to do Hypo?

any experience with wrasses?

CP treats Crypto, Velvet, Brook and Uronema. This just leaves worms (Prazi) and infections (antibiotics) to worry about in most cases.

4 weeks of CP + two rounds of Prazi usually = 6 weeks total. I will normally then observe for another week or two before transferring over to the DT.

Sorry, I have no experience using QS.

 

[EnderG60]

I just ordered 100g of QS so Im going to use that. But is 1-2 weeks enough of a treatment? I still plan to observe for at least 3-4 weeks after they fish appears healthy before doing anything. But Im not sure if after treating with QS or CP is it worth it or even needed to do a 3-4 week hypo treatment?

 

[MrTuskfish]

I just ordered 100g of QS so Im going to use that. But is 1-2 weeks enough of a treatment? I still plan to observe for at least 3-4 weeks after they fish appears healthy before doing anything. But Im not sure if after treating with QS or CP is it worth it or even needed to do a 3-4 week hypo treatment?

See b0bab0ey's post above yours. IMO, 1-2 weeks , IMO, is not long enough for any ich treatment. I admit to not being up to speed with any of the malaria drugs; but until I see some credible evidence that says QS or CP kills ich in all of its life-cycle stages, I still will assume 4 weeks treatment is required. Please read the ich stickies; understanding the ich life cycle is vital info---it will make sense of treatment options. No need to use hypo after QS or CP; they both kill free swimming ich; plus the QS or CP seems to kill other parasites as well.

 

[EnderG60]

I understand the life cycle and have read the stickies but they only talk about copper, hypo and fallow periods. Nothing about either QS or CP.

So far everything I have read on QS says 7-10 days of treatment. Im currently doing QS on my first batch of fish and the PBT I got, which got ich after a week in the QT is now barely showing any signs of ich after 7 days(I think all thats showing is where the ich was attached) I will continue treatment for a total of 14 days at least. But Id like some feed back.

If using the QS for 2 weeks and then 2 weeks of Prazi then 1 week observation is a good practice then I will do that. And get some CP and do 4 and 2 weeks for the more delicate fish.

 

[b0bab0ey]

So far everything I have read on QS says 7-10 days of treatment. Im currently doing QS on my first batch of fish and the PBT I got, which got ich after a week in the QT is now barely showing any signs of ich after 7 days(I think all thats showing is where the ich was attached) I will continue treatment for a total of 14 days at least. But Id like some feed back.

Like MrTuskfish, I've seen some evidence that CP kills Ich in all stages. So, I can only assume the same holds true for QS. The problem is I'm not willing to bet the house on it just yet. Anecdotal evidence is great, but we need more scientific evidence to back it up. I think it will come as CP & QS become more popular and gain more attention.

So for now I run CP for 4 weeks, same as I would copper. Just to be safe. At least CP treats a wider range of parasites, and doesn't seem to have the harsh side effects copper can sometimes have.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'd run it 4 weeks as well. Ich can remain in the cyst state for a lot longer than the "normal" life-cycle. Unless the Q drugs are killing cysts, 10-14 days is not enough exposure time. I haven't heard anything negative about extending treatment with the Q drugs, so I'll err on the side of caution. BTW, the "visible" spots of ich are not a reliable indicator of ich's status. A QT can be full of ich with no white spots visible. Fish can die with a load of invisible ich in their gills.

 

[EnderG60]

Ok Ill run it for 4 weeks just to be sure.

Now another question. Say I have my QT system running with a batch of fish which is at the 2 week mark, and I decided to add another fish. With the QS or CP medication in the system is it safe to add a new fish to the QT. If so would I need to reset the clock on all the fish or just let the current ones finish the last 2 weeks and then leave the new fish in for a full 4 weeks?

 

[b0bab0ey]

Ok Ill run it for 4 weeks just to be sure.

Now another question. Say I have my QT system running with a batch of fish which is at the 2 week mark, and I decided to add another fish. With the QS or CP medication in the system is it safe to add a new fish to the QT. If so would I need to reset the clock on all the fish or just let the current ones finish the last 2 weeks and then leave the new fish in for a full 4 weeks?

IMO, clock starts over for ALL fish. Sorry, IME taking shortcuts eventually leads to disaster.

 

[EnderG60]

Ok, next question.

Any issues with these medications when using bio balls and sea chem matrix(in a canister filter) for filtration?

What about use of skimmer or UV?

I know carbon will remove the medication.

 

[EnderG60]

double post

 

[b0bab0ey]

Ok, next question.

Any issues with these medications when using bio balls and sea chem matrix(in a canister filter) for filtration?

What about use of skimmer or UV?

I know carbon will remove the medication.

Bio balls should be fine; not sure about Matrix or use of a skimmer. Matrix looks like rubble to me, so there might be an issue with it absorbing some of the QS. Thus, lowering the overall concentration.

Alprazo has stated that he uses, "UV when I wish to end treatment." So, I wouldn't use a UV. He's also said that direct light will break CP down, but ambient lighting is fine. So, assuming the same holds true for QS, I wouldn't QT in an area that gets direct sunlight, and I wouldn't turn on any aquarium lights until after you're done with treatment.

 

[alprazo]

Quinine, like chloroquine is very sensitive to UV light.

 

[EnderG60]

Sensitive as in it breaks down, or sensitive as in it will become toxic?

My QT is in my basement so there isnt any light down there unless I turn the tank light on....

I just want to streamline the process as much as possible since I have about 80 fish I want to get over the next year.

 

[Paul B]

Many years ago when I used to treat fish for ich I used quinicrine "with" copper. It claers a fish of ich in a day, but you need ten days in this for a full eradication. I many times used Quinicrine hydrocloride, I am not sure that is what you guys are using but it was a prescription drug that I had to get from a Veternarian or pharmacist.

 

[Paul B]

Many years ago when I used to treat fish for ich I used quinicrine "with" copper. It clears a fish of ich in a day, but you need ten days in this for a full eradication. I many times used Quinicrine hydrocloride, I am not sure that is what you guys are using but it was a prescription drug that I had to get from a Veternarian or pharmacist.

 

[alprazo]

In sensitive, I mean degradation.

Quinacrine is in the same category as chloroquine. I don't believe that they still manufacture it. It was making people turn yellow. Same idea a chloroquine though. Hydroxychloroquine is the other med out there. I imagine it has activity too.