Preventing Old Tank Syndrome
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
el aguila
New member
I found this thread last night at 3:00 Am when I couldn't sleep and love it. My LR has been in my tank for 8+ years, and I'm having issues, so this could be a lifesaver. I'm laid off right now and can't afford to go out and get new rock and don't want to because I really like my rock.
Ordering my diatom filter today. I know there are good options previously talked about, but we don't have a little old dog, plus the idea of a diatom filter does make sense to me.
I'm about 5 hours from the coast and planning on going there in a couple of weeks. Previously I've been warned not to put anything from the NC sand beds in my tank because there is a bacteria in it that will wipe out my tank.
The example was cited of an new LFS in Wilmington that used coastal sand in their tanks and everything died that was put in their tanks. More likely pollution?
Anyway, I'm still a little nervous about it, but willing to try.
I do have one question for you Paul, what do you do with your pipefish when you clean? do you catch them in a trap (or bottle) and just pull them out while the typhoon rages in your tank?
Ordering my diatom filter today. I know there are good options previously talked about, but we don't have a little old dog, plus the idea of a diatom filter does make sense to me.
I'm about 5 hours from the coast and planning on going there in a couple of weeks. Previously I've been warned not to put anything from the NC sand beds in my tank because there is a bacteria in it that will wipe out my tank.
The example was cited of an new LFS in Wilmington that used coastal sand in their tanks and everything died that was put in their tanks. More likely pollution?
Anyway, I'm still a little nervous about it, but willing to try.
I do have one question for you Paul, what do you do with your pipefish when you clean? do you catch them in a trap (or bottle) and just pull them out while the typhoon rages in your tank?
Paul B
Premium Member
Interesting, what is different in the water from NC than here in NY?
I generally hope for the best, but I lose them. That is one fish I can't catch and I think the little pipefish get their gills clogged when I do this. For major cleanings that I do maybe every ten years or so, I remove the rock so I can catch them then. The other cleanings, I try not to do to much at once.
25 years in salt water aquariums. Been following a similar methodology as you have, but, I like to do thing in short bursts(quick Florida storm). I tend to stir things up more frequently and shorter duration...I just let my overflow and a filter sock do the work(then remove sock).
I use a 12" baster(feeder) that will jet a stream into rocks that I have not been able to duplicate with a powerhead.
I have to admit I have never though about getting things from the ocean for bacteria diversity.
This is a great subject and I think many can learn from this...
I use a 12" baster(feeder) that will jet a stream into rocks that I have not been able to duplicate with a powerhead.
I have to admit I have never though about getting things from the ocean for bacteria diversity.
This is a great subject and I think many can learn from this...
el aguila
New member
Paul B;20667846]Interesting, what is different in the water from NC than here in NY?
Probably nothing, if anything, I'ld think mud around NYC would be a whole lot more likely to have bad pollutants.
Anyway, I'm going to go mud collecting and probably put it in a dish for a couple of days, and then yank it out. Probably go after some amphipods too.
On another note, I was shocked when I saw your picture because you look exactly like my dad when he was about 10 years younger.
Probably nothing, if anything, I'ld think mud around NYC would be a whole lot more likely to have bad pollutants.
Anyway, I'm going to go mud collecting and probably put it in a dish for a couple of days, and then yank it out. Probably go after some amphipods too.
On another note, I was shocked when I saw your picture because you look exactly like my dad when he was about 10 years younger.
Garfield90
New member
Paul,
Another follower here.
I currently have a 100gallon tank, but paciently updating to a more than 1000 gallon system, with a 850 gallon display tank.
When I first collected the sand in the 100g, the entire room started smelling almost worse than skimmer's poo. So I decided not to put any 0.001 pounds of sand into the display tank, and buying strong powerheads to create true turbulence in the tank.
I have now 3 Tunze's, each of one provides like 20K gallons per hour, and the tank's turnover rate is about 73 per hour.
I strongly believe in refreshing live rock, the most efficient one is curing it, typhoons is the other haha.
Thank you!
Another follower here.
I currently have a 100gallon tank, but paciently updating to a more than 1000 gallon system, with a 850 gallon display tank.
When I first collected the sand in the 100g, the entire room started smelling almost worse than skimmer's poo. So I decided not to put any 0.001 pounds of sand into the display tank, and buying strong powerheads to create true turbulence in the tank.
I have now 3 Tunze's, each of one provides like 20K gallons per hour, and the tank's turnover rate is about 73 per hour.
I strongly believe in refreshing live rock, the most efficient one is curing it, typhoons is the other haha.
Thank you!
Garfield90
New member
It was nature's ocean sand, not collected from the sea (unfortunately, Madrid is 400 km away from the sea).
But, wherever the sand comes from, I think it doesn't help in the display tank. It's better to set up a refugium in the sump or a RDSB.
What do you think?
But, wherever the sand comes from, I think it doesn't help in the display tank. It's better to set up a refugium in the sump or a RDSB.
What do you think?
codyreef29
New member
I dont have a big tank like you guys but eventually i will. I use the old trick of what you would call god given powerhead MY HAND. Strong hand movement or a 1650 gph powerhead. also air pump heads on return pump putting a 1/16 inch hole from your high flow return pump will do the job or HELL get out the power washer mix up a couple hundred gallon of salt water and clean with that TALK ABOUT TYPHOON POWER
el aguila
New member
Alright got my diatom filter and hooked longer hoses to it to make it a little easier to clean, but had a leak between the motor and the filter jar. I didn't have time to mess with it because I'm getting ready to walk out the door to drive 3 hours to pick up a mated pair of Bluestripe Pipefish (they accidently got shipped to the wrong location.
Anyway anyone that has experience with these filters have any words of wisdom? I thought that I had the pump housing down tight on the jar, but maybe not.
Anyway anyone that has experience with these filters have any words of wisdom? I thought that I had the pump housing down tight on the jar, but maybe not.
Joe Pusdesris
New member
Make sure there is an O-ring inside the lip. Also, you need to push down on the lid quite hard until it gives way. DO NOT PUSH ON THE PUMP housing or you will cause leaks.
In this picture, you want to push on the round plastic which is about 1 inch off the jar. You do not want to push on the top of the pump which is several inches from the glass.
In this picture, you want to push on the round plastic which is about 1 inch off the jar. You do not want to push on the top of the pump which is several inches from the glass.
Paul B
Premium Member
My favorite fish, I have usually had a breeding pair of these.
But don't stir up the tank too much with bluestripes, they don't make it through the storm.
That filter is not designed very well at all, I am on my 6th one, that seal between the jar and motor is a disaster and even on filters that work well, it leaks a little and gradually gets worse. The sediment in the water wears it away. I end up re building them
michaellee64
New member
I run a 2' sand bed in all of my tanks, and about every 2 weeks I turn over the substrate with my hands and use a turkey baster to blast the sediment out of the rocks. I leave my powerheads and pumps going and let all of this filter out with my 100 micron filter socks. It's amazing what comes out. I have been doing this for approximately 8 years with no ill effects on this fish or corals. In fact my sun coral will open imediately to catch what is in the water column. I like to think of this as free coral food! I would not recommend turning over the entire sand bed if this has not been done in awhile as it might prove deadly to your livestock.
5pacey
New member
So why do you say that w/DSB, OTS is inevitable? Wouldn't the same apply to the DSB (stirring and biodiversity "enhancements") provided it is done only to the top 2 or so inches only? And of course some regimen to take out detritus from the system as much as possible?
I've looked but I have not seen anyone expanding on this, perhaps I missed something.
Spacey
Paul B
Premium Member
I say that because of the thousands of DSBs that were started many years ago, I have only heard of maybe 2 of them that are older than ten years. And those had some type of sand replacement. The theory of them working is fine but the theory of what keeps them working is IMO flawed.
Nothing runs forever without maintenance and DSBs are hard to maintain if you are going to run it like a true DSB, that is without stirring it.
DSBs run on the premise that bacteria keep growing or at least living in the deeper areas of the device. Bacteria don't have a long lifespan and die and reproduce quickly, eventually those dead bacteria become detritus and that detritus will clog the sand grains, when they clog, and they will, no water will get through to the layers where the bacteria were. No water means no denitrification. You could stir it and remove the detritus but then it is not really a DSB and it will not work as one. Besides if you stir an old DSB you run the risk of releasing gasses that most old DSBs will be generating. The small amounts that they generate are not usually a problem but if you stir the thing you "may" kill the entire tank.
Also a DSB relys on worms, pods etc to stir the layers of the bed and keep it porous. After ten years there will not hardly be any of those creatures left unless you replace them. But even if you do, they will not and can not travel to the lower reaches of the bed due to lack of oxygen. If there is no lack of oxygen, the bed will not work so it must be low in oxygen.
IMO, it is a flawed system and can not run for long. I know you will find a couple, but the vast majority failed.
Remember, I am not the God of DSBs and this is "my" opinion. I hope yours lasts forever. :uhoh3:
