Problems with V1/V2 and V3/V4-need help

R

reefnjunkie

Member
So I have a few things going on with my Virtual outlets that I am using to try and run the dimmable drivers for my LED set up. The drivers are the "Mean Well ELN-60-48D" dimmable driver
One problem is that the virtual outlets are providing voltage(?) even when they are set to "manually off". If I have the drivers plugged in the LEDs are on, even when I go to the status page and choose "manual off"

As a result I am not using the dimmer feature but merely have them plugged into a timer with my halides, so they all come on (blue and white) when the halide timer turns on.


Maybe that is why my programming wont work since they are constantly on so I am really at a loss,

Below is the programming I have;

V2-this is just the blues and I have the profile for RampUpB1 set for 60 mins starting at 0 and going to 100 and RampDB1 starting at 100 going to 0 same 60 minutes;

Set OFF
If Time 10:00 to 11:00 Then RampUpB1
If Time 11:00 to 22:00 Then ON
If Time 22:00 to 23:00 Then RampDB1
If Time 23:00 to 10:00 Then OFF


V3-this is 1 set of 12 whites;

Set OFF
If Time 11:00 to 12:00 Then RampUpW1
If Time 12:00 to 14:00 Then RampUpW2
If Time 14:00 to 15:00 Then RampUpW3
If Time 15:00 to 18:00 Then ON
If Time 18:00 to 19:00 Then RampDW3
If Time 19:00 to 21:00 Then RampDW2
If Time 21:00 to 22:00 Then RampDW1
If Time 22:00 to 11:00 Then OFF

RampUpW1 runs 60 minutes and is 0-40
RampUpW2 runs 120 minutes and is 40-70
RampUpW3 runs 60 minutes and is 70-100

RampDW3 runs 60 minutes and is 100-70
RampDW2 runs 120 minutes and is 70-40
RampDW1 runs 60 minutes and is 40-0

V4-another set of whites I run;
Set OFF
If Time 11:00 to 15:00 Then RampUNoo
If Time 15:00 to 18:00 Then ON
If Time 18:00 to 22:00 Then RampDNoo
If Time 22:00 to 11:00 Then OFF

RampUNoo runs 240 minutes and is 0-100
RampDNoo runs 240 minutes and is 100-0

I think the programming is right maybe not, but what has me baffled is that the virtual outlets are on 24/7 even when manually set to off-

Another issue, I hooked up the volt meter to see if they were putting out volts even when off (this was early on before I realized they are on at all times) and the volt meter says its putting out 12+ volts, I thought when I initially tested it was 10?????


A fellow reefer sent me this PM since I reached out to him since he also has an APEX and uses his in the manner I am trying to;

I looked through your program and evertthing looks pretty good. I gut feeling is that your apex v1/v2 and v3/v4 may be an issue. I have read this problem in RC in their forum. You can make a test profile ( I made one) where the voltage goes from 0 to 100% in 1 or 2 min. This will help you check the apex v1/v2 out. Also, have you tried to power cycle the Apex?

If all this fails, I would say contact Neptune and I know they have a way to reset the whole unit by hardwiring it to the computer ( I read this also at reef central).

This is the 1st time I have used the virtual outlets since I bought the APEX over a year ago..


Sorry for the long post but any ideas.............. anyone?????
 
Are you using the light dimming cable from Neptune, or did you DIY one? If DIY, what pins are you using for each port?
 
RussM said:
Are you using the light dimming cable from Neptune, or did you DIY one? If DIY, what pins are you using for each port?
Click to expand...

I am using an RJ45 connector and a cat 5 cable-I know RJ45 is really cat 6 but was told it does not matter. I have a fellow reefer using the same connector and a cat 5, he is the one who sent me the message a colored in blue

On the RJ 45 connector I am using pins 1 and 2 and 5 and 6.


on top row 2 right most spots, this is V3 and going counter clock wise with top right most screw being number 1 I use screw number 5 and 6 this would be V2 or V4. #1 and #2 screws (again top right to left) is V1 or V3.

IMG00278-20110530-2027.jpg
 
Last edited:
No matter if they are "OFF" or not their will be juice going through them.

It is the LED driver (or your equipment) that needs to shut itself off if the V's drop to X amount. The meanwell and TRC drivers do NOT have this option. In order to get around this you must plug your drivers into a switched power source outlet in an EB4 or EB8. Dim your LED's down to 30 or less and then shut the power off. Also before turning your outlet for the lights back on (on the EBx device) make sure your dimming is set down below 100%. When the variable speed ports are first turned on (if set at 100 percent) they spike and blow out LED's

I would also do some reading on how to make a voltage resistor box for your drivers to plug into before the Apex variable speed ports, it has been reported by several customers the volts do not always stop at 10. The box will make sure even if the ports go over 10v your box will keep the volts in check.

There is a build by nuclearheli that tells you how to build the box. His thread is amazing and has helped a lot of people, myself included.


As far as the RJ45 really a cat 6, that is completely false. The difference between the CAT 5 and CAT 6 is the size and make up of the copper wire inside. The connector has nothing to do with it. The bigger the copper cables inside the wire and the way they are twisted allow for faster data transfers. In a volt case like this, it really does not matter but I say bigger is always better..
 
Sorry, I dis agree with you on this entire post.

My drivers are plugged in eb1, eb2 and moon light driver is plugged in eb3. And there is no risistor box to manipulate the voltages coming out of variable port. I have been running my LEDs since I put this fixture together ( more than 2 months ago) Also, the voltage does NOT spike at v1/v2. I have had my settings directly to 100% and no LED blew! The just come on gradually with in 2 to 3 seconds. It is the purpose of the driver to regulate the current otherwise why would you need driver! Might as well plug them directly into 48 v wall wart!


pyton said:
No matter if they are "OFF" or not their will be juice going through them.

It is the LED driver (or your equipment) that needs to shut itself off if the V's drop to X amount. The meanwell and TRC drivers do NOT have this option. In order to get around this you must plug your drivers into a switched power source outlet in an EB4 or EB8. Dim your LED's down to 30 or less and then shut the power off. Also before turning your outlet for the lights back on (on the EBx device) make sure your dimming is set down below 100%. When the variable speed ports are first turned on (if set at 100 percent) they spike and blow out LED's

I would also do some reading on how to make a voltage resistor box for your drivers to plug into before the Apex variable speed ports, it has been reported by several customers the volts do not always stop at 10. The box will make sure even if the ports go over 10v your box will keep the volts in check.

There is a build by nuclearheli that tells you how to build the box. His thread is amazing and has helped a lot of people, myself included.


As far as the RJ45 really a cat 6, that is completely false. The difference between the CAT 5 and CAT 6 is the size and make up of the copper wire inside. The connector has nothing to do with it. The bigger the copper cables inside the wire and the way they are twisted allow for faster data transfers. In a volt case like this, it really does not matter but I say bigger is always better..
Click to expand...
 
reefnjunkie said:
on top row 2 right most spots, this is V3 and going counter clock wise with top right most screw being number 1 I use screw number 5 and 6 this would be V2 or V4. #1 and #2 screws (again top right to left) is V1 or V3.
Click to expand...
I think you have them backwards. V1/V3 signals are on pins 5(+)/6(-). V2/V4 signals are on pins 1(+)/2(-).

I can't clearly define how things are wired in your photo... do you have wires to the drivers running out the bottom of the block or something like that?

I'm assuming that you have not moved the wires between the RJ45 jack and the screws around. Standards are as follows, and it appears that the surface-mount block adheres to that:

1-Blue
2-Orange
3-Black
4-Red
5-Green
6-Yellow
7-Brown
8-White


To verify proper operation & output of the VarSpd ports...


  1. Disconnect the drivers' dimming control wires from that terminal block.
  2. Connect the CATx cable to the V1/V2 port.
  3. Set all VarSpd ports to manual off.
  4. Using your voltmeter, measure the voltage on screws 5 & 6 (red lead on #5) You should read almost zero; on mine, I read 0.038v (38mV)
  5. Repeat Step 4 on screws 1 & 2, you should get the same reading (or very close)
  6. Next, put the voltmeter leads back on 5 & 6 (red on 5)
  7. While watching the voltmeter, set VarSpd 1 to Manual ON.
  8. You should see it quickly rise to slightly over 10v (mine reads 10.45v) You should not see a spike higher than that.
  9. Measure the voltage on 1 & 2; it should still read almost zero.
  10. Put the voltmeter leads back on 5 & 6 (red on 5)
  11. While watching the meter, set VarSpd 1 to Manual OFF. It should drop to near zero with a second or 2.
  12. Put the voltmeter leads on 1 & 2 (red on 1)
  13. While watching the voltmeter, set VarSpd 2 to Manual ON.
  14. You should see it quickly rise to slightly over 10v. As before, you should not see a spike higher than that.
  15. Measure the voltage on 5 & 6; it should still read almost zero.
  16. Put the voltmeter leads back on 1 & 2 (red on 1)
  17. While watching the meter, set VarSpd 2 to Manual OFF. It should drop to near zero with a second or 2.


Repeat for the V3/V4 & VarSp3/VarSpd4.

Finally, create a ramp profile with ramp time 0, and both start and end intensity to 50%. Call it Steady50 or something like that.
Modify the programming on all VarSPd ports to contain only a Set 50Steady statement. Set all VS ports to Auto.

Moving the blue cable around as needed, measure the output for each port; they should all be about 5-5.25v.
 
Thanks Russ, I will give it a try-

just to clarify, I did not move any screws around and yes I have the wires coming from under the block-I mounted the block to a board with all the drivers and the wires are all hidden below that board-I took the 2 wires that connect (from my Mean wells) the dimmables (blue being + and white being -) and connected them to the screws on 1&2 and 5&6, #1 being the + and #2 being the -, and then 5 also being the + and 6 being the -.

Could it be the base module itself that is faulty?

I will triple check my wiring but when I hook the volt meter (the way it is now) I am getting a reading of 14.45 volts-

I'll post my findings here shortly-I hope I screwed up somewhere and its an easy fix (lol)

Thanks for the help
 
readings

readings

So when I disconet the drivers and its just the cat5 cable plugged into RJ connector at one end the other end plug into the V1/V2 I ger reading of 16+ volts on V1 and 14+ volts on V2- These reading are when the the setting is "manual off"
V3 and V4 were in the 14-15+ volt range

When switched to "manual on" its the same readings

FWIW, I did have all the wires correctly connected-Does this mean my base module is messed up?


I did not bother creating a ramp profile since I am guessing the base unit is not doing as it it should
 
@ madreef_7K You may disagree all you want but you proved what I said, YOUR DRIVERS are regulating the volts, that is why "The just come on gradually with in 2 to 3 seconds." You can also read what RussM wrote "You should read almost zero; on mine, I read 0.038v (38mV)"
Your equipment needs to shut itself off if the volts drop below X amount. In most cases it will be 1 volt.
You also stated you have your lights plugged into EB's to turn them off an on.
That was the exact point I was making in my post. I was only giving a heads up on what has happened to users in the past. Not just what happened to myself. I myself have had great luck with my third base unit. The first two were part of a "bad batch" From what I have read if your serial number is less than 10300 you MIGHT have one from the bad batch. Another way to tell is if you bought your controller between Jan 2011 and April 2011. Again this is only going by what other have reported.

Now back on track....

@ reefnjunkie - It is well documented all over the internet the issue you are having. Ports 1,2 3, and 4 on the base unit are more stable than the VDM but people have reported over and over the Volts coming out of the ports up to 14+. The only fix I have seen was to send the base unit back to Neptune Systems.
 
OK so it sounds as if my base unit is toast, or at least the V ports, I bought my unit back in 2010, I cant even find a serial #, there is one on the EB8 but just a # on the back of the base unit #4113-that really sucks-

Taking the APEX off line to have it sent in for repair makes me realize how much I depend on this unit. I dont have the cash for a double redundant sysytem but in the scheme of loosing a single 1000.00 dollar piece, I guess how can you not afford it.

Very frustrating
 
Apex serial number is burned into the hardware. You can find it near the top of the XML status page
 
volt meter

volt meter

Well this is the meter and how I have it set, I get reading of 14-16 volts not 10ish and its whether the V ports are set to on or off.

volt.jpg


I followed everything that you said to do-which I thank you for
 
You actually believe the readings from an electronic device from Harbor Freight?!?!? :eek1:

Just kidding!

One last question... is that blue network cable an unmodified store-bought cable, or was it hand-made (or was re-terminated on one end)? The end I can see looks like standard TIA-568B termination, but I can't see the other end. Easy way to check: hold up both ends and look at the wiring... both ends should be identical. Look carefully - the green/white and blue/white strands are often difficult to tell apart. If at all in doubt, do an end-to-end continuity check on each pin.

I'm still leary about the cabling... there are a number of combinations of pins that will give a 15.something volt reading.
 
The picture I posted is actually from an other reefer the wires/connector are the same.

that should not make any difference,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,right

dont be hating on harbor
 
Right off the bat I am sorry to say your apex VDM is toast. Now when I sent mine back with the exact same problem they fixed it but told me I shorted it out. That is difficult to accept since it was running in the fixture for a week before I actually shorted out a bunch of LED's and traced it back to the VDM which was putting out in excess of 14 volts.

The stand alone VDM, and I am sorry to say this, cannot be trusted. The circuit is not well designed and protected. That in no way an attack on Apex, I love their stuff and have modules all over my system controlling everything.

That being said, when you get your Apex back you would be wise to spend a couple of bucks and put in a voltage limiting circuit as I describe in my post:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1975251 Post 434

Just a suggestion. I have seen the VDM put out more than 10 volts and so has many others.

The driver does in fact need to be plugged into a switched outlet. No respectable driver will allow you to dim to zero. If you want to know why then check out this thread;

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2028615&highlight=nuclearheli&page=2 Post 27

My two high voltage drivers are plugged into an EB4 and programmed to come on when my profile starts.

My profiles that work for me and my tank are much simpler and can be found on my thread;

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1975251 Post 800

Again, this is what works for me and my tank is doing great with my fixture programmed my way. This may not be the way for everyone!
 
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