Hello i just want some advice from you all. I am just about to give up on QT as i have not had 1 fish survive from it! i currently have a 75g with a rena xp3 cannister filter and an airpump running in my Qt setup i don't know if it's the water quality or something else my my fish always end up sick. I do water changes almost everyday about 10% and take out uneaten food so i don't know whats causing the problems every time i check ammonia and nitrite are 0 also. So so now i'm thinking about adding a protein skimmer to hopefully help the water quality for the fish can it be used with meds like furan 2, copper, and prazi pro? please help i am about to just dump my next purchases straight into my tank as it's costing alot og money watching my fish die in QT.
Protein Skimmer for QT?
- Thread starter jc16
- Start date
Conesus_Kid
Premium Member
Are you getting your fish from the same source every time? How old is the ammonia test kit?
NuTom
New member
A protein skimmer is not really gonna help in a QT. How long has the QT been set up? How are you acclimating your fish?
The problem could be the source your buying from. Are you buying from a place called sea u marine? The angel that you had on hold there did not look so good IMO and the wrasse looked horrible swimming around with it's mouth wide open.
That store is not a reliable source at all they haven't been in business that long at all.
HUH jc16 is nballer?
The problem could be the source your buying from. Are you buying from a place called sea u marine? The angel that you had on hold there did not look so good IMO and the wrasse looked horrible swimming around with it's mouth wide open.
That store is not a reliable source at all they haven't been in business that long at all.
HUH jc16 is nballer?
NuTom
New member
Why would you say that Matt. I find a QT to be a temporarily home for fish and water changes would have a better benefit then a skimmer. Especially all those skimmer for smaller tanks are cheap made to have any great outcome and not only that if you have use meds there would be no need for a skimmer what so ever. So IMO it would be a waste of money.
AuroraDrvr
New member
A protein skimmer is not going to hurt anything to have and use on a QT. But to get one that will actually do something worthwhile, will cost a good bit of money. Not something everyone can do.
That said, add some power heads to the tank. You can also a few pieces of live rock. It seems like there is not enough oxygen in the tank.
Also do lots of water changes when there is fish in the QT.
Is the QT tank always under treatment dosage? Add the fish to the QT tank, THEN add in any medications once the fish is settled in.
That said, add some power heads to the tank. You can also a few pieces of live rock. It seems like there is not enough oxygen in the tank.
Also do lots of water changes when there is fish in the QT.
Is the QT tank always under treatment dosage? Add the fish to the QT tank, THEN add in any medications once the fish is settled in.
MattL
New member
Indeed. But to perform a real quarantine, to break the life cycle of something such as Marine Ich, you're talking about 6 to 8 weeks minimum to be sure you were successful. That's a lot of water changing in my opinion.
I'm not exactly sure why you would say this.
The protein skimmer removes waste before it can be ammonified into ammonia and then converted to nitrate. Water changing only removes the nitrates once they are present. Skimming skips that whole step. That's why we skim our display tanks. A quarantine system is no different than a display tank except in purpose.
If you are not performing water changing at a rate that keeps up with the nitrate accumulation, then you are presenting deteriorating conditions.
And one of the most important aspects of a quarantine tank is also to prevent a calm and peaceful environment for the fish to recover from their travels, take to prepared food, etc. Now it depends on the fish and how you perform water changes, but too frequent changing can either present the fish with excess disturbance from monkeying around with the tank, or the risk of shock from different water conditions if you err and fail to prepare the current batch of water the same as the previous.
Now I still do perform water changes on a quarantine tank. You have to, just like a display tank. I just use my skimmer to make them less frequent.
And let's not forget that if you are using a skimmer safe medication, then that medication must be redosed for every water change.
There's no harm in overskimming.
I think most people use quarantine tanks that are too small to begin with. We just had a post about this. So perhaps we have different ideas of what volume is to be skimmed.
I have clownfish fry in 2.5 and 5.5gal tanks. Even if I could skim these (the clownfish fry cannot handle any filtration), the volume would be too small to make it worthwhile. I use daily water changes, but doing drip acclimation every day is very tedious.
My quarantine system is 40L gal with 45lbs of live rock* and a sump. In this case, skimming is possible.
Matt
* I do not use copper based medications.
As of today, my LFS is still holding my two fish. That is exactly 13 days. They are very healthy!! Eating both frozen and dry food.
The store owner did not even mark my name on the tanks which were holding my fish. How did you know my fish condition??
I think it is very irresponsible to say a LFS is not a reliable source when you have not even made a visit.
Cheers,
NuTom
New member
MattL In your situation it sound like your using these tank as a longer term home for your fish which in term a skimmer would benefit this kind of system but in jc16 situation is much different. He just wants to make sure his fish is healthy before throwing them in the DT. I don't see how once a week is considered too much water changes. Also a QT should not have liverock just in case meds have to be used the rock would absorb some of the meds.
jc16 or naballer whatever. I have too been to that store. It's say on hold for JB or JT and it was the smallest angel like you described. The guy tried to sell me the other personifer angel that had body fungus or something on it. That's unreal!! It was right next to the Blueface angel with HLLE and next to that was a Emperor that was a so called X-MAS emperor angel. No way is that a X-Mas Emperor. If you have bought many fish from this store and they all ended up sick wouldn't you have a second thought?
Take my advice or not on the QT but in the end it is you who have killed many fishes.
jc16 or naballer whatever. I have too been to that store. It's say on hold for JB or JT and it was the smallest angel like you described. The guy tried to sell me the other personifer angel that had body fungus or something on it. That's unreal!! It was right next to the Blueface angel with HLLE and next to that was a Emperor that was a so called X-MAS emperor angel. No way is that a X-Mas Emperor. If you have bought many fish from this store and they all ended up sick wouldn't you have a second thought?
Take my advice or not on the QT but in the end it is you who have killed many fishes.
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rort
Active member
I dont know if it should be directed at the person buying the sick fish that THEY killed the fish. Sometimes there is nothing the hobbyist can do to save a sick fish, as im sure JC16/naballer has tried to do in the past. I used to buy from a very bad LFS that took terrible care of their fish and charged ridiculous rates for EVERYTHING!
The part that JC16/naballer is wrong is by going back to support that LFS. There are two of this places very close to my home and I am make it a point to tell fellow and starting off hobbyist to not shop there for the reasons already explained.
The part that JC16/naballer is wrong is by going back to support that LFS. There are two of this places very close to my home and I am make it a point to tell fellow and starting off hobbyist to not shop there for the reasons already explained.
NuTom
New member
rort if i'm not to direct it at him then who should i direct it at? If you had read his post carefully you have read the part where he posted "my fish always end up sick" NOT i buy sick fish. So yes in the end the fish did die in his hands.
jc or naballer there are many questions we need to know about your QT set up. Instead of looking around the problem i think you should find the root of your problems.
1. How long has the QT been set up?
2. What is in the QT?
3. Are you using tap water or RO?
4. What test kit are you using?
5. How are you acclimating these fish?
Very important need to know whole process......
6. What symptoms are these sick fish having?
7. When fish are sick what medication are you using?
8. Are you mixing medications?
Just looking to help another fellow canadian but if you don't want my help that's cool. I have never had problems with quarantining fish. I still have my juvenile blueface in 14 weeks in a QT. I have a 20G with HOB filter, heater, dim light, digital thermometer and pvc pipes. This tank i never stop running but do have another 25G set up used for back up and it's exactly the same as the 20G set up. I find smaller tanks better then big tanks as you have more control of water quality and you don't have to use as much medication(saves money LOL). Also if you need to do a big water change like 30%, 50% or even 100% it's so much easier. IMO bigger is not exactly better with a quarantine tank but this does really depend on the size of the fish your quarantining.
jc or naballer there are many questions we need to know about your QT set up. Instead of looking around the problem i think you should find the root of your problems.
1. How long has the QT been set up?
2. What is in the QT?
3. Are you using tap water or RO?
4. What test kit are you using?
5. How are you acclimating these fish?
Very important need to know whole process......
6. What symptoms are these sick fish having?
7. When fish are sick what medication are you using?
8. Are you mixing medications?
Just looking to help another fellow canadian but if you don't want my help that's cool. I have never had problems with quarantining fish. I still have my juvenile blueface in 14 weeks in a QT. I have a 20G with HOB filter, heater, dim light, digital thermometer and pvc pipes. This tank i never stop running but do have another 25G set up used for back up and it's exactly the same as the 20G set up. I find smaller tanks better then big tanks as you have more control of water quality and you don't have to use as much medication(saves money LOL). Also if you need to do a big water change like 30%, 50% or even 100% it's so much easier. IMO bigger is not exactly better with a quarantine tank but this does really depend on the size of the fish your quarantining.
MattL
New member
Yes, those are two different situations.
This is a fallacy.
Only certain medications are incompatible with live rock, most notably copper based medications. Most (like Prazipro) are just fine in a live rock, live sand environment.
Look for my upcoming article in Reefkeeping magazine on quarantine.
For the OP, the fact that so many fish have perished in quarantine sounds to me like a water quality issue.
First, how long do you plan to hold these fish? A week? Or 2 months; long enough to treat for marine ich? If it is just a week, then water changes can be a way to go, but 10%/d is too small. If you want to hold them for a longer period of time, then the protein skimmer is the way to go.
Second, what medications are you using? Are you using copper? If you choose to never use copper, there are lots of options to improve survivability.
Third, are you drip acclimating over several hours before adding the fish?
As noted above, I was invited to write an article for Reefkeeping Magazine's "Notes from the Trenches" on a quarantine approach I developed a while ago. I used to lose almost every fish I tried. Now, with my new approach, I lose zero.
I can certainly walk you through my method (it's just one approach) and make sure your next fish survives.
Matt
Skerp
New member
I agree with MattL, only copper medications will affect live rock, most antibiotics and anti-Parasitics won't do any harm. As for Jc16/nballer you really should post more specific information when you ask a question like this. It could be one of many different problems. Also for people who don't want to spend much money on another large or decent sized tank for a QT just go to K-mart or Target and pick up a rubbermaid tub. I use a 60 gallon rubbermaid tub for my quarantine and it works fine. Only thing is they are not so sturdy when filled with water so I built a wood frame around it to keep its shape. Total cost was about 30$ as opposed to a 55 gal AGA tank for 100-150$.
NuTom
New member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14764794#post14764794 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MattL
Only certain medications are incompatible with live rock, most notably copper based medications. Most (like Prazipro) are just fine in a live rock, live sand environment.
Matt
I really don't understand you!! Are you really in here to help the OP out or your just trying to bash me? The guy clearly stated in his first post that he uses "furan 2, copper, and prazi pro" and AuroraDrvr advised him to place a few liverock pieces in his tank. Which told him it would be a bad idea.
I think your just posting in here to promote your magazine article. Seriously i could care less about your little article. Good for you....
AuroraDrvr
New member
I have treated Multiple Fish with Cupramine, all the while having dedicated Live Rock in the QT. There was no mass exodus of Bacteria, and the rock did not absorb the copper. Cu levels stayed consistent throughout the entire process.
Hell, I've got rock running in my Reef tank that has seen copper.
Well first i would like to thank everyone for their input in my issues with QT. I think everyone is just trying to state their point of view which i really appreciate. Well i do believe i have water quality issues thats why i was planning to use a protein skimmer. The fish won't be in there for long 2 weeks of copper treatment then 1 week of prazipro. The fish looked awesome today so i decided to try and take them home. My Qt tank has been running for a couple of months already from my 2 attempts. A couple of fish ended up sick with an addition of a new one from another source so i treated with copper but used prime so all fish died overnight. Second attempt I had a christmas island emperor die after a month in the qt after a copper and furan 2 treatment from ich. He wasn't eating too well. Then one night i was doing maintenance after lights out i spooked him and he went nuts and died. So hopefully i will make it this time around. Today i brought home my fish after 2 weeks of being there and eating like a champ. They look healthy swimming around the tanks and have observed them almost everyday. That store might be one of the best fish sources i can get my hands on. Sick fish i bought and added from different sources but it was a impulsive buy just like my last emperor i had in there got ich right away. I have almost never got a sick fish from them as he allows me to hold and observe and would have not tried to sell anyone a sick fish i would know as i go there almost everyday. I'm not saying their fishes are perfect but with the amount if fish they bring in there has got to be a few with issues. I'm not trying to offend you Nutom but i don't think you should be making these statements thats directing at a particular store. But i do appreciate your opinion. MattL i would love for you to tell me your zero lost Qt method to maybe try a new approach. Thanks everyone who has participated so far. Oh and the reason why i posted with the nballer account is because i had no idea i was on my friends account on his computer sorry for the confusion.
AuroraDrvr
New member
If you dose Prime while you are treating with copper, it will change the copper's complex and make the copper lethal to fish. So there's why those fish died.
Never mix Prime and any copper based meds.
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