Pump Water Up, Pump Water Down

[desx2501]

My setup is a 55g on a table, with a 10g underneath.
I have 2.5 questions :

1 - For the water return from 10->55, regardless of the price, should I get a power head with a venturi effect system, or not? (Rio 600+ RVT vs Rio 600+)
1.5 - What exactly does it do? I've read a bit about the venturi effect, but I'm not sure what it actually does in the tank)

2- Taking aside possible flood consideration, to move water from 55->10, can I use a small pump to give a hand to gravity?

 

[firechild]

1. No, venturi is absolutely useless for a return pump. It will simply introduce unwanted bubbles as well as reduce the volume of water the pump moves.

1.5. A venturi is point of restriction that is followed by an inlet which for aquarium purposes allows air in. The restriction followed by an inlet causes suction. This means that air is mixed with water through the venturi.

2. Absolutely not. It will simply be a matter if when, not if, a flood occurs. Are you planning on using a weir or an overflow box? Neither would benefit from having a pump to assist.

 

[desx2501]

Thanks Firechild!

1- Ok, so basically, if I get a pump with a venturi system, I would have to close the venturi "hole" to use it as a return pump, but I could open it if I want to use it as a power head to have more water circulation in the tank.

2- I planned to use an overflow, but I'll use a larger pipe to increase the flow instead of a pump. Anyways, I needed to modify my overflow design because it was meant to fail

Thanks again,
Xavier

 

[eric mac]

1. No venturi, In a saltwater marine tank venturi is only beneficial in a protein skimmer. My best advice is to leave the venturi adapters off any return pump.
2. It kinda sounds like you don't know how an overflow box works, I'm just suggesting you google "how overflow box works". I'm truly not trying to b an a-hole just helping you not make a mistake.

 

[desx2501]

2. It kinda sounds like you don't know how an overflow box works, I'm just suggesting you google "how overflow box works". I'm truly not trying to b an a-hole just helping you not make a mistake.

While I can't tell you the equations behind the pressure, the flow and the suction, I do know how it works. I made one and it worked, but the way I made it just wouldn't let enough water flow through so even if the return pump could pump 3534532GPH, it won't be able to return more than X GPH, where X is the amount the overflow is able to "drain".

Like many folks out there, I decided to model my tank and all with google sketch, so I should model my overflow too Awwww. So many things to do, so little time!

 

[chimmike]

what size pipe were you originally using that it couldn't keep up with the pump? In that case, dial back the pump.

What kind of overflow are you using? Durso style or siphon?

 

[desx2501]

It is a siphon type overflow. I don't know for sure it wouldn't keep up with the pump since I don't have the pump yet, but when I use my overflow for my water changes, it doesn't look to drain that fast.

Come to think of it... it would probably take 15mins to empty my whole aquarium with the overflow (should the overflow be designed not to stop at a given height) so that's equivalent to a 4 times an hour water cycle, so I guess it's enough.

Anyways, I have to modify my overflow to reduce the eye-sore factor, so I'll make some improvement on it too!

 

[chimmike]

what size pipe were you originally using

 

[desx2501]

Oh, sorry. It's supposed to be a 1/2", but I'd day it's more like a... 7/16".

 

[hebygb]

I would suggest that you look into some of the best practices incorporated in todays reef aquariums.

1. It is a bad practice to enable an overflow of any kind to empty your display. In most cases, an overflow and return plumbing should take no more than the top 1-2" of water from the display and then stop.

2. Design your overflow to handle more than your return pump can dish out. This alleviates any number of problems that can arise down the road, and helps you "tune" your tank.

3. do consider using standard size plumbing to accommodate flow. This makes it easier to adjust, modify, augment.

4. do consider buying an overflow... or at least consult the plumbing thread. While not a ginormous tank, it is a lot of water to mop up and can cause significant damage to any home. Your overflow should be able to handle 600 gph for that size tank.

5. If DIY is the choice... follow what is affectionately known as the beananimal or herbbie style when building... message beananimal for advice and drawings directly... he has skills.

6. Good luck and take your time.

 

[chimmike]

Oh, sorry. It's supposed to be a 1/2", but I'd day it's more like a... 7/16".

yeah, way too small.

 

[desx2501]

1. It is a bad practice to enable an overflow of any kind to empty your display. In most cases, an overflow and return plumbing should take no more than the top 1-2" of water from the display and then stop.

Ya, it can't drain the whole tank. I meant "If I would make it so I can drain the whole tank, it would take 15mins". This is basically how it is for the moment. The maximum quantity it can drain is the difference between the water level, and the tube that goes down the other tank.

When I want to do a water change, I just lower the draining tube from the overflow system by 2".

Thanks for the pointer for beananimal and herbbie, I'll look them up later on.

Edit: Btw, I just made that drawing in 2mins in mspaint since I'm not on my home computer

 

[Sharpie_]

des, adding a surface skimming box will give you a constant water level in tank and stop fish from being sucked into your overflow.

Upsizing your line size will immediately increase the flow capacity, OR simply add a second line.

 

[Sharpie_]

doubles

 

[desx2501]

Yes, I've drawned the thing simply, but in fact there are a few things missing in the drawing. First of, the part to prevent the suction of any fishes. Also, on the other end of that same pipe, in the overflow, the end of the tube becomes larger, which creates a suction effect, similar to the venturi effect (it might actually be the same thing)

 

[eric mac]

Well on ur drawing it doesn't show a surface skimmer. A surface skimmer is a key part in a hangover the back overflow. First it keeps from sucking up anything but in most it make a constant water level in the overflow box, and ur DT at it's right level. So any water that is pumped in to ur DT that is extra will fall in to the surface skimmer then through the U tube to the overflow box. With ur drawing the tank water level has a few inches the play around, and if it sucks up any air in U tube that will stop the syphon effect.
This might give u the idea we r trying to express

O-Yea my suggestion is to put a cover of some sort over ur surface skimmer box. Screen or thin plexiglas with drilled holes. Cus once along time ago I had a snail climb over the surface skimmer wall and the clogged the U tube. With then over filled my tank, big big mess

 

[desx2501]

@eric mac:
Wow, thanks a lot! It's not exactly what I planned to make, but I might change my design. I don't understand why (aside from "not sucking fishes") a surface skimmer should be use, as opposed to just having the "return to sump" pipe an inch higher. For the fish sucking part, there are alternatives (a threaded over cap, etc.), but I will look into it online before making any rash decisions .

If I go with the surface skimmer option, I would totally have forgotten about the cover part for the surface, thanks a lot!

 

[eric mac]

Another suggestion is if u want to make a cheap surface skimmer. At most petshop they carry the little LEE fish holders (the ones most shop owner will use to put the fish in after they caught them just befor they put the fish in the bag). Get one of those set it in the water (empty) where it will sit in the water hanging on the top of ur tank. Then take a marker and draw a line of ur water level in side of the container. Then just drill a few holes in the plastic container where that line is. (just take it easy on drilling that plastic cus it shatters easily). U may have to put a hole on the handle of that thing with a plastic/nylon bolt to hold it down in place so it won't move.

 

[Chaka]

The purpose of a surface skimmer is due to the attributes of saltwater. Saltwater allows "nasty" & "unwanted" particles in the water column to rise to the surface. This is in turn skimmed into the overflow box and then down into the sump. I know this is a very simple explanation, but that is how I understand and have read it.

 

[eric mac]

The purpose of a surface skimmer is due to the attributes of saltwater. Saltwater allows "nasty" & "unwanted" particles in the water column to rise to the surface. This is in turn skimmed into the overflow box and then down into the sump. I know this is a very simple explanation, but that is how I understand and have read it.

This also true, but in a syphon style hang on the back overflow box the surface skimmer serves several purposes. And keeping that level water line in the two components serves is the most important aspect. So air can't get in the U-tube and stop the syphon.