Purple Rim Montipora lost all color

[banthonyb71]

I got a Purple rim Montipora at the Lansing frag swap last month and the frag has lost all the green color. I have no idea where to start as to why. I got another frag of neon green montipora that has kept its color.


The frag hasnt turned white just lost all the green color and is all purple now. Is it dead?

I have no idea where even to start, so I can adjust conditions accordingly.

Here are a few stats

Tank about 4 months old

Ammonia and Nitrite both at 0

Ph 8.26

Red Sea Coral Pro salt.

Intank media basket with filter floss, seachem denitrate and chemipure elite
Also a bag of purigen in first chamber.

Specific gravity kept around 1.024

temp hard to keep constant fluctuates from 76 to 79 but average is around 78

My nitrates are usually around 15 ppm even with constant weekly water changes:sad2:

I have Steve's led SPS upgrade lighting with blues around 50% and whites around 40%

Sicce 1.0 (251 gph) as a return

2 Sicce Nano's (270 gph each) alternating 24/7 first powerhead on for 2 hours then both on for an hour then 2nd one on for 2 hours.

Livestock consists of 2 Ocellaris clown fish, 2 blue legged hermits, 3 Nassarius snails, 1 blue tuxedo urchin, and 2 tiger trochus snails.

corals include:
purple rim frag
neon montipora frag
large fire and ice colony
small Bam Bam colony
1 head green with purple tip frogspawn
and 2 more acropora frags that I dont know the name of.

Any other stats I forget?

Where do I even start?

 

[mcgyvr]

Well.. personally I'd start by holding off on adding corals until you get your nitrates lower and your tank gets a little older/more "mature"...
Its the reason your nitrates won't go any lower IMO..
I wouldn't recommend anyone start SPS corals with such a young tank..


do you have alk/cal /magtest kits? Are you maintaining very stable alk levels?
corals can loose/change color somewhat based on changing lighting conditions also..

 

[RobZilla04]

It's possible the lighting is too intense or the flow is causing it to be unhappy. The tank could use some more maturing before venturing into LPS & SPS. FWIW temp might be a little low at 76 as well.

As mentioned above you need to keep track of Alk Cal & Mag if you're going to be keeping corals. Get some test kits and start a log book. That's one of the best pieces of advice I got early on.

 

[nogascans]

Tank is very young for those SPS. I still remember my 1st tank from 6 years ago and you are going way too fast. Just slow down and follow the basics.

Those nitrate levels are way too high to keep that montipora happy, as well as the other SPS.

How much rock is in tank? Need some nitrifying bacteria colonies and some way to export (?). Also, I didn't see you list a skimmer. Do you have a functional one?

I would suggest some Fritz Aquatics AFA80205 Fritzzyme 9-Saltwater Nitrifying Bacteria for Aquarium, 32-Ounce to start. Follow the directions to a T and test weekly. You should start to see the N03 levels drop, as well as some P04 drop. Shoot for N03 under 3 and P04 under 1 ppm.

Sincerely,

David

 

[mcgyvr]

While there are SPS tanks that have "higher" nitrate and phosphate levels its not the "norm"..
I personally start to have issues with SPS (mostly browning out) when nitrates get above 10.. And some "picky" SPS don't like anything over 2-3 or so before they start to get crabby..

But its also not uncommon at all for corals to change up colors from one tank to another,etc... many times specific elements are suggested to play an important part in specific coral colors but I'm not sure if there is any real truth to that..
edit..well.. this site blocked all the external links I wanted to share with you... sorry.. (kind of like North Korea in here sometimes )
found this one thats "approved" though..
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300585

 

[banthonyb71]

I would suggest some Fritz Aquatics AFA80205 Fritzzyme 9-Saltwater Nitrifying Bacteria for Aquarium, 32-Ounce to start. Follow the directions to a T and test weekly. You should start to see the N03 levels drop, as well as some P04 drop. Shoot for N03 under 3 and P04 under 1 ppm.

Sincerely,

David

The biocube is stock as far as water volume, so no sump. and no room for a skimmer so I'm unable to carbon dose. I have probably 20 pounds live rock and also denitrate in the media basket

 

[banthonyb71]

do you have alk/cal /magtest kits? Are you maintaining very stable alk levels?
corals can loose/change color somewhat based on changing lighting conditions also..

As mentioned above you need to keep track of Alk Cal & Mag if you're going to be keeping corals. Get some test kits and start a log book. That's one of the best pieces of advice I got early on.

I do have all the proper test kits but the Largest coral I have is fire and Ice colony.

other than that, everything else are just frags. I really havnt been going crazy stocking the tank with corals. The other SPS frags I do have, seem to be happy. So I really didnt even consider that I would need to be checking cal a mag levels at this point, especially when Im very consistent with weekly water changes but I will do a test today to see where those levels are at.

 

[banthonyb71]

found this one thats "approved" though..
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2300585

Thanks for this info mcgyvr




So I understand everyone says I shouldnt have these SPS frags but I have them now. So what can I do to try and preserve them?

IS this Montipora dead? Should I start doing water changes twice a week?

Any other ways other than carbon dosing and water changes to get those nitrate levels down?

 

[slyseekr]

Montis tend to be hard(er) to kill, but can also be great bellweathers for your water quality. If the rim is still purple, and you're seeing polyp extension, it's just telling you it's not happy.

Some things...

It seems like you don't have enough biological filtration capacity to handle your nitrate situation and your current methods (LR, LS and what's in your basket) aren't putting a big enough dent. One option might be to simplify your filtering methods and (slowly) replace the various medias (i.e. The filter floss) in your basket with something with greater surface area for cultivating denitrifying bacteria. I use SeaChem Pond Matrix and it works really well.

The other option is to add additional Live Rock.

If you can add one, a protein skimmer would help, even just to maintain consistent nutrient removal, that, or you'd have to very lightly feed your fish from now on. A Tunze 9001 should fit in your second chamber, but you'd have to set up an ATO to make sure the water level is maintained.

Not sure about Steve's LEDs (the way they write about the product on their website makes me want to :eyeroll: too), but it seems like your lighting could be stronger. One of my monti's lost color, and didn't perk up until I raised it in the tank and increased my LED output, it's regained its color and has grown nicely since. Slowly increase only your blue spectrum lighting output over a few weeks and see how your SPS responds.

Start testing for Alk, Cal and Mag on a regular basis. Even if it's having a piece of mind knowing your stats are within optimal range. A primary goal should be to have an idea how much alkanity and calcium are being used over a defined period of time so you can dose appropriately to maintain stable levels.

Also, not sure if I missed it, but do you test for Phosphates?

Lastly, once your levels and water maintenance regimen are optimized, you might want to consider lightly dosing aminos (and/or iodine and iron) to help bring out coral color.

Good luck!

 

[banthonyb71]

It seems like you don't have enough biological filtration capacity to handle your nitrate situation and your current methods (LR, LS and what's in your basket) aren't putting a big enough dent. One option might be to simplify your filtering methods and (slowly) replace the various medias (i.e. The filter floss) in your basket with something with greater surface area for cultivating denitrifying bacteria. I use SeaChem Pond Matrix and it works really well.

The other option is to add additional Live Rock.

If you can add one, a protein skimmer would help, even just to maintain consistent nutrient removal, that, or you'd have to very lightly feed your fish from now on. A Tunze 9001 should fit in your second chamber, but you'd have to set up an ATO to make sure the water level is maintained.

After your response I realized I forgot to mention that this is only a 14 gallon biocube. everyone told me that a skimmer was pointless in a tank this small. not mention very few that will even fit in any of the back chambers.

I am using seachem denitrate and I did not see any change in nitrate levels once I added it. I have about as much live rock as I can comfortable fit in the display while still being able to clean the tank. I'm about ready to remove the denitrate considering it didnt work but the directions said the product would only work if nitrates where kept in check. which was somewhat confusing but Im assuming they need to start off low which kinda defeats the purpose of buying something to reduce them doesnt it??

Not sure about Steve's LEDs (the way they write about the product on their website makes me want to :eyeroll: too), but it seems like your lighting could be stronger. One of my monti's lost color, and didn't perk up until I raised it in the tank and increased my LED output, it's regained its color and has grown nicely since. Slowly increase only your blue spectrum lighting output over a few weeks and see how your SPS responds.

I got the SPS xtreme upgrade kit which they state is capable of growing virtually any SPS coral in the hobby. Looks like they have a newer version now. mine is only 5 months old.

I wasn't sure if I had my lighting to high or too low.

quick question, shouldn't I turn my whites up for more color? as oppose to turning blues up?

Start testing for Alk, Cal and Mag on a regular basis. Even if it's having a piece of mind knowing your stats are within optimal range. A primary goal should be to have an idea how much alkanity and calcium are being used over a defined period of time so you can dose appropriately to maintain stable levels.

Also, not sure if I missed it, but do you test for Phosphates?

Lastly, once your levels and water maintenance regimen are optimized, you might want to consider lightly dosing aminos (and/or iodine and iron) to help bring out coral color.

Good luck!

I do test for phosphates periodically. every time I test them they read zero so I dont test as often now.

looking to test cal and dkh when I get a chance today.


but again...am I really at a point where I would require dosing?

other than the fire and ice colony Im only dealing with a handful of frags still on frag plugs.

 

[slyseekr]

After your response I realized I forgot to mention that this is only a 14 gallon biocube.

Ah, that clears up a few things and definitely changes some answers. I thought you were working with the 32 gallon model. You can still skim on a tank that size, but I think focusing on the biological filtration and limited feedings would probably be more fruitful.

I am using seachem denitrate and I did not see any change in nitrate levels once I added it. I have about as much live rock as I can comfortable fit in the display while still being able to clean the tank.

Definitely right about the amount of live rock. How long have you been running Denitrate? It's pretty similar to Matrix, but SeaChem recommends using it in a low flow area (< 50 gph), so your conditions are likely not optimal for it. SeaChem states that Matrix can support higher flow rates, but it would take a few weeks for the bacterial colonies to saturate the media.

I wasn't sure if I had my lighting to high or too low.

Quick question, shouldn't I turn my whites up for more color? as oppose to turning blues up?

Corals primarily benefit from blue end of the light spectrum and white is primarily for your tastes. Since White is full spectrum, just be aware that increasing its output will encourage algae growth (which benefit from the red end of the spectrum).

Does Steve put out any specs or ratings on their lights? It would be good to have some understanding on PAR output and patterns because it would allow you to make an informed decision on your coral placement and light levels.

On my tank, I have my Montis are pretty high up: 5 inches below surface with my LEDs 10 inches above the water and ramp up to and down from 100% intensity throughout the day (I run 3 prime HDs). They are definitely light hungry.

One of my montis browned out at one point b/c it wasn't getting enough light, I moved it up in the water column and it's colored up nicely, took about 2 weeks. Same goes for a purple Monti Cap colony that had lost some color from being placed under some shadows. I added a 3rd Prime to the setup to eliminate those shadows, and it colored up within a few days.

Go slowly with any light adjustments though, and definitely watch for signs that your levels are too strong.

looking to test cal and dkh when I get a chance today.

but again...am I really at a point where I would require dosing?

other than the fire and ice colony Im only dealing with a handful of frags still on frag plugs.

I'd actually stress testing more now because of the clarification on your tank size. Even though you only have a handful of frags, they are using Cal and Alk. Because of the smaller water volume, your available Alk and Cal are more limited, and are probably being consumed at a faster rate than you think.

Basically, the smaller the water volume, the higher amount of maintenance and monitoring effort because all parameters can swing or deplete more quickly than they would in a larger system.