Puzzling... high ALK & Ca, low PH

I agree that I would not act yet to alter pH until you have a good measure of pH and alkalinity. pH test kits are often inaccurate.

These have more:

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 1: The Salt Water Itself
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-03/rhf/index.php

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 2: What Chemicals Must be Supplemented
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-04/rhf/index.php

The "How To" Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners, Part 3: pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-05/rhf/index.php

The “How To” Guide to Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners,
Part 4: What Chemicals May Detrimentally Accumulate
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-09/rhf/index.php
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13518848#post13518848 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
tb, I have very little faith in any titration type pH test kit. The closest to good that I have tested is API's.

If you want to run a successful reef tank, you really should invest in an electronic pH monitor. They are not that expensive and will give you a good pH reading and peace of mind. :)
Click to expand...

Billy,

I went ahead last night and purchase an electronic one online. As of yesterday there are no nitrates showing up on any of my test kits, so I'm not going to dose any more sugar, except possibly once a week for maintenance until I get an algae scrubber in operation. (I have little to no space around the tank for refuge so I've designed a ATS that hang on the back of the tank.)

Thanks for your guys help.
 
I know it's been a while since my last post but I wanted to get my digital pH meter in. Well, it's here and after calibrating it, I tested the water and it looks like my lowly test strips are right. pH is 7.8.

The rest of my tank readings are...

Ca - 500 (Red Sea)
Alk - 3.6 meq/L (Red Sea)
NO3 - 0 (Red Sea)
Silicates - 6 (Seachem)
Phos - .2 (Seachem)

All my corals are doing good except for the Blue Snowflakes which seemed to have completely shutdown for about 4 days now.

Thanks for the help!
 
What time of day was that pH measurement?

Since alkalinity is Ok and pH is low, there is excess CO2 in the water, which may be coming from your home air.

The best options to raise it as more aeration with fresh air, and using limewater to supply calcium and alkalinity. :)

The low pH article a few posts up has more info on these procedures. :)
 
Randy,

I take my measurements around noon. A friend of mine gave me some of Seachem's Marine Buffer the other day. I'm going to start dosing that as per directed on the bottle.
 
No, no, no!!!!!!!

Buffers are not the way to go to raise pH (they usually fail and you end up with excessive alkalinity and still have a pH problem), and that one is an especially bad choice, being loaded with borate that is Ok for a fish tank, but is not recommended for a reef tank. In a reef tank, corals use carbonate/bicarbonate and not borate. You do not want to replace the alkalinity they use with something they do not, which will just build up.

That said, any buffer is not the best way to raise pH. More fresh air and limewater are the best ways by far, followed by using a high ph two part when you need calcium and alkalinity.

Check the details in the article!
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13605441#post13605441 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
No, no, no!!!!!!!

Buffers are not the way to go to raise pH (they usually fail and you end up with excessive alkalinity and still have a pH problem), and that one is an especially bad choice, being loaded with borate that is Ok for a fish tank, but is not recommended for a reef tank. In a reef tank, corals use carbonate/bicarbonate and not borate. You do not want to replace the alkalinity they use with something they do not, which will just build up.

That said, any buffer is not the best way to raise pH. More fresh air and limewater are the best ways by far, followed by using a high ph two part when you need calcium and alkalinity.

Check the details in the article!
Click to expand...

OK! I won't. I read the articles and you also suggest using baked baking soda. I know we have plenty of baking soda around the house (like a 5lb bag). Can I use that in place of the limewater? Especially since I was notified today that my job is being reduced so I really don't have the extra money to go out and get Kalkwasser or limewater.
 
It has about half the pH boost that limewater does, per unit of alkalinity, and does not supply a balanced amount of calcium the way limewater does, but it has a much bigger pH effect than does a commercial buffer. :)

I'm sorry to hear about your job. :(
 
OK... I'm throwing out my Red Sea kit. I received my Seachem Alk & pH kit that I ordered a couple weeks ago and retested my Alkalinity. It reads it to be 7 meq\L not the 3.6 I was getting with the Rea Sea kit (probably because that is as high as it goes.)

Anyway, I tested Alk, pH (digital meter) and Calc.

Alk is at 7 meq/L or 19.6 dKH (my test strips were more accurate then I thought here)

pH is 7.9
Calc is holding at 500ppm.

Since my Alk is crazy high and pH is low should do you think I should still dose limewater or baked baking soda? From what understand, Randy, the baked baking soda will raise my pH more than it will my Alk, right?
 
Correct, I would not add any baked baking soda. I would probably dose nothing until the alkalinity dropped on its own to 4 meq/L / 11 dKH or so, even if the pH is on the low end.
 
I do not have a lot of faith in Seachems Alkalinity kit. You may want to get a Salifert, Elos, API or Sera just to double check your number.

For some reason, I just do not think your alkalinity is that high. :)
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13643636#post13643636 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Billybeau1
I do not have a lot of faith in Seachems Alkalinity kit. You may want to get a Salifert, Elos, API or Sera just to double check your number.

For some reason, I just do not think your alkalinity is that high. :)
Click to expand...

I have 2 types of test strips (one of them being API's) and they all are running really close to each other so I believe that Seachems is in the ballpark on this one. I tested a couple weeks ago with the API test and it showed darker than 300ppm which converts to 17dKH.

Unfortunately, with my job being cut I can't run out and get yet another kit. So, I'm going to have to ride this out like Randy suggests. So, far everything is looking happy in my tank except for my blue snowflakes (but I think I've found why they seem to dying... my Blue Damsel is picking (eating?) it.) I've constructed a little plexiglass "cage" for it with holes for water movement and such to see if it will come back to life.
 
I have 2 types of test strips (one of them being API's)

Did those test strips claim to be accurate in seawater?

FWIW, I'm not a fan of test strips for alkalinity in seawater. While I've used them for a hot tub, I do not understand what the chemistry is behind them or how they could possibly be accurate except by coincidence in seawater where there are several species that contribute to alkalinity, unlike freshwater where it will almost exclusively be bicarbonate. So if they just sense bicarbonate, they will be inaccurate.
 
Did those test strips claim to be accurate in seawater?

FWIW, I'm not a fan of test strips for alkalinity in seawater. While I've used them for a hot tub, I do not understand what the chemistry is behind them or how they could possibly be accurate except by coincidence in seawater where there are several species that contribute to alkalinity, unlike freshwater where it will almost exclusively be bicarbonate. So if they just sense bicarbonate, they will be inaccurate. [/B]
Click to expand...

Randy,

Yes they do claim to accurate in both Salt and Fresh... there different pads for each type of water.

Anthony
 
I don't recall API having test strips.

The API kits I know are a titration type test. Each drop equals 1 dkh of alkalinity.
 
Yes they do claim to accurate in both Salt and Fresh... there different pads for each type of water.

So the same strip gives different answers depending on whether you think the water is salt or fresh? Do you recall how the answers vary?
 
I'm sorry... it's the same pad on the strip... just a chart to read for either fresh or saltwater. I don't recall how different they are though.
 
Wow. :eek1:

Thanks Anthony. Never seen that one.

I guess I feel like Randy does. I'm not sure how they can accurately measure alkalinity in seawater.

Maybe you can find the API liquid alkalinity kit locally. They are under 10 bucks and quite accurate from my testing. :)
 
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