QT plan questions please

[fessoclown]

I have read that CP is not to be used with live rock so I need to double check my plan here.

I currently have 2 QTs going.

QT #1- 20 G
on day 28 of CP ( Ich Shield Powder )
Bare bottom with PVC
2x AC50 with seeded sponges
-Longnose Hawk
-Bangaii Cardinal
-Lyretail Anthia

QT # 2 - 10G
Bare bottom with PVC
2 rounds of Prazipro done.
no meds ever in this tank to date
-2 juvie clowns

Yesterday a local reefer had a tank disaster ( tank cracked ) and I acquired a juvie Powder Brown Tang

I set up QT #3 - 16G tall (my wife is super pleased about the presence of yet another tank in the dining room :hmm3

I had no seeded sponge left so I used some ceramic rock wall and some rock rubble that's been in my fuge for 2 months. My tank has been fallow for 4-5 months so I know it's clean.

My plan before getting the PBT was to move the fish from QT #1 into the DT this weekend, they will have done 32 days in CP.Then move the clowns into QT #1 to treat with CP for a month.

Now, what to do with the Tang? Would it be ok to move the juvie clowns and the juvie Tang into QT #1 at the same time for a month

or

move the clowns into QT #1 for a month and dose QT # 3 (16G Tall) with CP
and keep the Tang by itself for a month in CP.

I am a little wary about dosing CP to QT #3 as the biological filtration for that tank is the ceramic rock and live rock rubble and it says on the Ick Shield Powder bottle to not dose tanks with rock in them however I am sure that I have read that it is OK to use CP with live rock.

The PBT is showing no signs of Ick even though it has had a very stressful couple of days and the previous owner claimed it doesn't have ick I am not going to trust that as I have just spent way too long fallow just to be stupid!

Any thoughts on the best way to proceed?

Thanks

 

[fessoclown]

Bump.
I guess my question is:
"is it safe to add CP to a QT tank that is using live rock for bio-filtration?"

I'd like to keep the Tang by itself in QT #3

 

[scooter31707]

I use CP in my QT with live rock. I don't use it as a filtration aspect, I use the live rock just to make the fish feel comfortable and they will actually nibble on some algae. I run a HOB filter on my QT. I actually have 3 crabs in a 20 gallon long that are still alive and well with the CP treatment. So it may or may not kill the live rock.

 

[Terrp]

While I suspect that LR “can” be used with CP and other meds, it’s definitely not ideal. I suspect that the Ick Shield Powder instructions indicate not to use it with LR, because LR, aragonite sand, ceramic, most bio filter media, resin aquarium decorations and other porous materials can absorb medications (decreasing effectiveness). The meds can later leach out (perhaps leading to too much meds later or impacting inverts if you re-use it).

I also use CP and PraziPro in QT, but I only use chemically inert material like plastic for bio filter media. One option is an HOB filter with a plastic bio filter (not ceramic rings and the like) with the carbon filter removed (since it absorbs meds). My preferred QT bio filter is K-1 micro media in an air-driven DIY filter. Making them is cheap, quick and easy. You can find instructions on YouTube. K1 has lots of self-cleaning surface area, so it's very effective. The added bonus is that some meds may impact oxygen levels, so it's never a bad thing to pump air into a medicated QT. I personally don’t like to use sponge as a primary bio filter because it traps detritus. If you rinse it to remove the detritus, you impact or destroy the bio filter.

The only downside to using plastic for your bio filter is that it can take many weeks to fully kick in, and it seems to take longer with CP. So, it's ideal to use a plastic bio filter that's already mature before using it in a QT. If you don't have a mature plastic bio filter, you can dose with a product like Seachem Stability every day until the plastic bio filter is coated with bacteria. (K-1 turns brownish yellow when mature.) You’ll need to test for ammonia daily and do water changes if ammonia shows up. You can also start temporarily with a seeded sponge to help jumpstart your filtration until your plastic bio filter matures. You can also start with mature water from your DT to start your QT (and for water changes if the DT tank has good parameters and no parasites). Be sure to replenish meds in your QT when you do a water change.

Despite recommendations from some aquarists, I don’t ever bleach or otherwise clean my K1 or other plastic media after QT, since that destroys the bio filter, and it takes so long to reestablish. In fact, I have not needed to empty or clean my QT since starting CP for QT, even though I have treated various sick fish. I just keep the QT going and add new fish after removing treated fish. The CP is so effective that both the fish and the tank are effectively cured during treatment. I might feel differently if I ever have a fish that doesn’t respond to treatment, as I might have to worry about the fish having something that developed a resistance to the CP. But that hasn’t happened, and I feel good about the tank if I feel good enough to move the treated fish to my DT. If I want to shut down my QT because I don’t expect any new fish for a while, I’ll first run carbon and poly filter in the QT to remove the meds. Then I’ll move the k-1 filter to my DT sump and run it there to keep it going until the next time I need to run a QT.

Regarding hiding and sleeping places for fish in QT, PVC is usually good enough.

So, for your case, I would treat the PBT with CP in QT1 (after the other fish are moved to the display). PBTs like a lot of swimming room, so a 10g or 16g tall wouldn’t be ideal. I have a small one in a 4ft 50g long QT right now, and he happily races back and forth down the length of the tank all day… I think he’d be miserable and stressed in a short tank for a long QT. You might be able to get away with QT’ing the clowns in the same 20g with the PBT, but it’s ideal to not put too many fish in a small QT, since you want to reduce stress and avoid ammonia spikes. Since you already have the clowns in the 10g, I’d just leave them there to treat them with CP separately from the tang unless you absolutely need the 10g for something else.

By the way, despite the fact that the tang has never shown signs of ick, I agree with CP treatment anyway. Sometimes fish are carriers and don’t show signs but can infect other fish in your DT.

 

[Terrp]

One other thought... Another problem with CP and LR is that most LR has algae, corals, critters and the like. Unless your LR started as dry rock and has none of these things, the CP will cause die off and lead to ammonia spikes.

 

[fessoclown]

Hey Terrp,
That was an extremely helpful second post here on RC. Welcome to the board!
This is my very first go-round with QT and it has not been terribly merry. I am only into the hobby for 3.5 years. This is my first "real" tank. It's been up for just over a year now. I bought my first round of fish over 3-4 months last year and did not QT. Around christmas I had something rip trough my tank, most likely it was Brook. Killed off all but 2 fish, a Japanese Redfin Wasp and a Red Hawk fish. I was unable to catch the Hawk until the spring when I magically woke up to find him in the fishtrap. BY this time my summer season had started, I do a comedy juggling show at festivals and fairs and travel allot so I didn't have time to QT properly until the end of the summer.

I am determined to keep my DT free from ailments, I have been fallow so long and I have absolutely learned my lesson!!!

Thanks for the recommendation of the media K-1 Micro media ( I will sourse some tomorrow) and the very detailed description of your QT protocol.
What about Siporax? I have 5 Litres coming next week, it is basically glass... do you think it would be suitable?

I have had a dismal survival rate so far but I think I am learning. Your post was very helpful. I haven't done anything yet but you confirmed the plan I was leaning towards.

Tomorrow I will move the fish from QT#1 into the DT. A long nose Hawk, a
Bangaii Cardinal and a Lyertail Anthais.

(I am thinking of putting the Lyretail into an acclimatization box as I may not keep it. I understand they can get quite aggressive, especially when they are on their own... (he started as a "school" of 4) but that's another thread...)

I will move the PBT into the medicated (CP) 20G that has 2 AC50s with filter floss and an airsponge filter.

I'll keep the clowns in the 10G and dose it with CP tomorrow

The 16G tall will house incoming fish to observe, get eating and treat with Prazipro.

I have a Linespot Wrasse coming tomorrow that I have to decide what to do with so for now it will go into the 16G QT#3

I may do TTM with him as I have read that wrasses can be iffy with CP. What are your thoughts on that?


Cheers!

 

[fessoclown]

So I moved the PBT into QT #1 (20G) along with 1 juvie clown (I lost the other clown last night... FML) and a purple firefish.

I took out 10G and repleced the 10 with untreated (CP) water from my DT. I effectively am running 1/2 dose of CP and will add the second half tomorrow or in a few days and start the clock then. All 3 fish in QT #1 Seem fine. They all ate tonight.

I shut down QT #2. I put the AC50 with filter floss on QT#3.

I bought a Linespot Ferry Wrasse today and he went into QT#3. He wouldn't let go of the net so I googled that and won;t be using nets anymore...

The Linespot is freaking me out... he's totally playing dead, laying on the bottom of the tank... I have to look really close to see him breath... this is "normal"? Ya?

I am not exactly sure how I am going to go forward with the wrasse. I have read conflicting accounts about wrasses and CP. I figure I have 72 hours to decide... I have an short a heater to do TTM but I do have the tanks. My wife won;t be too pleased though... it does take up some space (in our dining room)

Any thoughts? Advice would be appreciated.

The clown I lost was pure negligence. I overlooked surface agitation and I think he suffocated. I was using a DIY filterfloss filter built from a CD stack case fed with a MaxJet like this....

there was no flow in the tank at all... from now on, like mentioned above I will always run an airstone...

 

[fessoclown]

Linespot was hiding in his rock but popped up to eat.
He looks good, eat and retreat is the M.O. today.

 

[Terrp]

QT plan questions please

I don't have experience with Siporax. If it's a porous ceramic, I don't think I would use it with meds.

I don't have any wrasses, so I haven't developed a QT protocol for them. CP and wrasses don't mix, so other treatments would be needed instead. (Note that TTM only works for ich.)

I have never used half doses of CP. there is some speculation that parasites may be able to develop an immunity to it, so I always use a full dose. I mix it with QT water before adding it to the QT and I have not had any apparent negative reactions to it.