QTing, meds, and tank Qs??

[silence88]

the not so local FS has afew vary cheap "tank raised" SHs, there not sure what kind though , iam gessing kuda?, there only $35 and they have some orange/red ones for $200 as well:eek2: , i was planning on getting one and seeing how it did before i get more, iam thinking of QTing in a 10g with live sand and rock from my 75g and 8g, wich will also be going into the SHs bigger tank, but the rock from the 75g might have flukes and the 8g rock have some aptasia on it, so iam think of doseing the rock and SH with prazi pro for flukes and get pep shrimp for the aptasia, i was also reading I should dose the SH with metro and panacure? I have never used these before, are they safe for LR? the SHs tank should be around 75 right? can it be a bit lower then that? any other meds i should do as well? and can SHs get ick? also i have to make sure theres NO bubbles in the tank?

thanks

 

[pledosophy]

Tank raised usually means raised in net pens in the ocean these days.

I would keep them in a barebottom tank for the first 6 weeks or so, using plastic hitches. Do the treatment with the 3 dewormers. Make sure they are eating frozen.

Panacur is not liverock safe IMO. It won't kill the rock but can have a long lasting effect on a variety of inverts later on so I would not treat the rock with it. IIRC prazi pro is panacur under an alias.

To treat the fish with the dewormers I gut load brine shrimp.

Don't use antibiotics unless there is an actual infection.

I would kill the aiptasia before putting it in the seahorse tank, and get the peppermint shrimp. If the rock is already being pulled out of the water just use a cigarette or BBQ lighter to torch the suckers. Works better then any OTC remedy you have ever paid for.

SHs tank should be around 75 right?

For temp? Actually a degree or two lower is great. I set my heater at 68F, my tank is that low right now.

Seahorses can get ick, it is just more unlikely. With seahorses it usually presents in the gills.

Bubbles in the tank are fine, just no pressurized bubbles IMHO.

HTH

 

[ann83]

Pledo is right about almost everything

Panacur = fenbendazole, PraziPro = praziquantel, Flagyl = metronidazole.

You do want to use all three of them. Use each for 3 weeks, consecutively, so that you end up with 9 weeks of deworming. Gutload adult brine shrimp with the med and one day a week, feed the seahorse two meals of the med-filled brine shrimp. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks for each med.

 

[silence88]

thanks guys, i have been looking but cant seem to find panacure or metro, is flagyl the trade name or some brand of metro? and i cant gut load brine with the dewormers sence i cant find it here in canada I have been looking for some for months, also I forgot i will have to keep the tamp at least at 75 sence the mandarin thats in my nano will be going in with the SHs, along with the rock/sand and some corals,

what do you meen bubbles are ok but no pessurized bubbles? iam sure there will be some micro bubbles from the return line, and mabie skimmer if i use one.

if i cant gut load brine with the meds can i just add them to the tank for a week each then do a WC and use the next one? if i cant find them all dose it matter? i can get prazi for sure

 

[ann83]

nah, you need to feed them to the seahorse somehow. Having it in the water will only affect things externally, and you want to get at the things inside the seahorse. You can inject it into other forms of live shrimp like live mysis or live ghost shrimp if you can't get adult brine. Can you hatch brine and grow some out yourself?

Panacur is a dog dewormer that can be obtained by vet or pet supply place http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13555

Metronidazole is available at Big Al's http://www.bigalsonline.ca/BigAlsCA/ctl3664/cp18003/si1317515/cl0/seachemmetronidazole5grams
http://www.bigalsonline.ca/StoreCat...35oz?&query=metronidazole&queryType=0&offset=

 

[rayjay]

Ann, most of those meds listed on Big Als, just haven't been removed, like the formalin you told me they had.
Since our new laws, they don't sell the meds anymore but they haven't updated their website.
It is also illegal to try to bring it in via mail or courier or even carry it across.
We have very few meds that we can purchase now.
Unless you have a special relationship with a vet, most won't give a prescription for anything as they aren't treating the patient.

 

[ann83]

Well, thats a bummer. I guess you'll need to get a good relationship with a vet then, since I really wouldn't purchase WC or TR without deworming. That would just be heartbreaking.

Ray, do you have any suggestions on what silence88 can do to help get deworming/antiparasitic meds to treat TR seahorses? Or is the intent of your post just to recommend that Canadians steer away from TR and WC seahorses?

 

[rayjay]

Basically it was just a post to explain the situation we have. I don't have any answers yet. Haven't been able to find a vet that would help so far.
I'm hoping that some Canadian out there will/has found a legal source and can post to steer us in the direction needed.
I would prefer to have nothing but captive bred and I've had to wait 4 years to find H. Barbouri that I wanted most and that was captive bred. In the long run I think I'm ahead for it.
I'll probably have to do the deworm process anyway when I put all my horses in the same tank as I have 3 different horses from 2 different sources.

 

[silence88]

well i dident know all that, i can get meto and prazi for sure, and i will try and grow some brine, i used to grow it but coudent grow enough for what i whanted, but i can grow afew at least to feed two SHs with, feed wonce a week one medicated feeding of shrimp for three weeks for each med right? I cant get live mysis either i sure wish i could, and goast shrimp are too big for them, I will phone some vets and see if i can get panacure

so we cant get formalin here either? also rayJay i sent you an email about growing brine

 

[silence88]

also if i can get panacur and iam feeding the meds to the SHs dos that meen that i can use live rock and sand in the tank and it wont kill off anything? sece its not in the water its in the food? i have only one cycled filter right now and iam not sure if it can handle the waist of two SHs

also i have been haveing problems keeping the PH up in my QT tank, so sand/CC in it would be great

 

[ann83]

One day a week, you want to feed two meals of brine shrimp gutloaded with meds. The first three weeks, use one med, the next three weeks, use a different med, the last three weeks, the last med. You could use the live rock in the tank, but it would be risky. Could still affect the rock, although less likely so.

If you use a barebottom QT tank with the cycled filter, you can use a turkey baster (or siphon tube) to remove any feces and any uneaten food in the tank once or twice a day to help with the bioload, so that the cycled filter can handle it.

 

[rayjay]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13984552#post13984552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by silence88
also rayJay i sent you an email about growing brine

I tried e-mailing you at your hotmail address last night at midnight my time,and it kept coming back undelivered.
I then sent it via the link through RC and assumed that you should have received it.
Go to my website and at the bottom of the pages there is a link to my e-mail.
Send me an e-mail that way and i'll see if I can return that. I'll just copy from my sent file again.

 

[silence88]

thanks a lot for the emails rayjay they helped a lot, now to find that salt and some local phyto

so iam now hatching brine and will try and grow them out as fast as I can but i will getting the SHs in afew days if i can get them at all, so i dont think i can feed medicated brine right when i get them sence the brine will still be small, that is unless they will eat small brine? there small about 3-4" i think with tail, but they are eating PE mysis so they say, they also said they would not eat the frozen brine but iam gessing if its moveing they will eat it?

also when i by them is it all right if they bag them like a normal fish? or should they mabie be bagged under water so they arent exposed to the air? same thing for when iam putting them in QT at home.

 

[rayjay]

As far as I know, bagging as fish get bagged is just fine.
When I purchased my Reidi's, the horses were gently lifted out of the tank by hand and placed in the ready bag of same tank water.
My latest acquisitions Barbs and Angustus, the bag was filled with water, and while under water, the seahorses were gently directed into the bags. Less stressful perhaps, but both ways acceptable.
Using a net IMO would be more stressful as the seahorse could get snagged in the mess.
As for any info on treatment, I can't help there.
I haven't seen anyone with better info than Ann.

Just noticed near the top that Ann mentioned to gut load adult brine shrimp so you'll be a while getting to that point.

 

[silence88]

yes i know it will be a wile, iam hopeing mabie they will take baby brine gutload with meds, iam going to dose prazi in the tank for sure anyway, i will the store if they bag them underwater or by hand sence i figured they might get stuck in the mesh or hold onto it and not come off

BTW rayjay i forgot to ask you ware do you order your brine shrimp eggs from, iam gessing brine shrimp direct?

 

[rayjay]

That's correct, but you can get them in Canada, just make sure that whoever you buy from is storing them refrigerated. If they're stored on a shelf, the hatch rate decreases to the point little to none will hatch depending on how long they've been out of refrigeration.

 

[pledosophy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=13982973#post13982973 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by rayjay
Ann, most of those meds listed on Big Als, just haven't been removed, like the formalin you told me they had.
Since our new laws, they don't sell the meds anymore but they haven't updated their website.
It is also illegal to try to bring it in via mail or courier or even carry it across.
We have very few meds that we can purchase now.
Unless you have a special relationship with a vet, most won't give a prescription for anything as they aren't treating the patient.

You sure about this dude. Big Al's says they will still ship meds to Canada.

 

[rayjay]

Big Als in Canada won't sell restricted meds to Canadians so I'm not sure why Big Als US would do so. I can see it if they ship meds that are not restricted though, but why would a person buy an unrestricted med if he can buy it locally? And why would Big Als US ship to Canada, a product that is controlled when it is illegal to do so?
I can find prazi under a couple of brand names as it doesn't appear to have been restricted, but I was told by Big Als, and Petsmart, that formalin, metro, and fenbend are unavailable except at a vet.
I was fortunate to get some formalin from a friend who got it from a vet that figured it was a good thing to use to sterilize nets between every use.
There is a vet only about 4 miles from me that I'm going to drop in on one day and see if I can get the other meds. At least I can show him my website where he could see my horses and know I'm not stringing him a line.
If he had any doubts, I could also show him this thread with Ann's instructions on deworming process.

 

[ann83]

Big Al's Canada told me that as far as they are aware, they are still shipping formalin, praziquantel, metronidazole, neomycin, triple sulfa, and furan-2 to Canadians. I think that's what Pledo was referring to. Not Big Al's U.S.

 

[rayjay]

Well, I don't know what they are doing then because Big Als is one of the two that told me they don't on Formalin, Metro, and Fenbend.
The others you mention I know they do have because I have them on my med shelf here.
I even went into the Big Als location here in London called Aquarium Services in Canada, and they have pulled the ones I mentioned, from the shelves.
After the rush of boxing day, I'm going to have to do some serious questioning of Big Al's to find out why they are giving up different stories. I don't like being given a runaround, especially when I'll be dropping many hundreds of dollars there tomorrow.
Some like neo and the tri sulfa's were temporarily unavailable for a while as for some stupid reason, capsules and tablets were pulled and eventually replaced with powder in packets. Now all my stock of them is in powder in packets. That also applied to Tetracycline, Minocycline and erythromycine. I don't know why the form it comes in should matter but I'm assuming it's the same in the US as all these products come from the US. i.e. the maracyns.
By the way, I had tried 5 different stores in London for Formalin and all said the same thing. Had to be pulled. One of those stores supplied me with my bottle and they got that from a vet. I may have a second supplier as a pharmacist is checking out the need I have for it in my hobby.
I gave her this website to check out and I think she intends to google for additional background info on it's seahorse use.