question about LFS etiquette

[Sk8r]

Definitely trust but verify.
I had a 10 year hiatus in the hobby between 1999 and 2005 or thereabouts. Talk about critical years!
I sold off a 100 gal acrylic mixed reef with what had been state of the art crushed coral, drip trays, diatom filters, no skimmer, exterior pump, and only slightly exotic fluorescent lighting and we thought bristleworms were the enemy, we used only dry rock, kalk was exotic, and getting softies to live was a biggie---except we had no trouble with elegance coral; I came back into the hobby 5 years later with aragonite, dursos, submerged pump, kalk/and reactors, metal halide lighting, dosing, water changes, fuge/sumps, skimmers, drilled tanks, and the ability to grow stony coral hand over fist---except elegance. And now we're going to have another major change in lighting, and I may change out my lights. The tech has totally mutated. What we can keep has vastly changed. How we keep it has changed. LFS's that have been in business for decades are not evil---but they may be operating the way they did in 2000.

 

[Angel*Fish]

The net has its place, but there are great LFS out there with a lot of knowledgeable people, and the approach of "trust - then veirfy" is certainly appropriate in this case.

SV

I don't know where all the these great fish stores are.

In my experience they tend to be back in the 90's with their husbandry. If they weren't why would they have bioballs & biowheels for sale for salt tanks?

 

[syrinx]

Because not everybody keeps a reef. There are people interested in all levels of the hobby. When I had my shop- I was smart enough to let customers that studied one aspect of the hobby to be experts. I didn`t let my ego get in the way- because they would know more about their tiny aspect of the hobby,wheras I had to know a little about many things. That being said, most all of the customers that thought so highly of them selves as experts- in the long run would come for advice on their crashed tank. Living on the edge of tech is great- but if there is a issue-the fall is farther. And being a expert by reading others experiences and talking doesn`t give the ability to troubleshoot that hands on experience does. I stand by the mentor, books,good LFS,and lastly
online advice of strangers, as the correct order to get the foundation needed to get past being a newbie

 

[Chris27]

Why one can trust books, no matter how old they are:

1.) The nitrogen cycle hasn't changed in quite some time.
2.) Fish/Invert/Coral compatibility does't change.
3.) Chemistry doesn't change.
4.) The natural habitat of the livestock doesn't change.

Gizmo's and Gadgets change, that's for sure, but in all reality there aren't too many books out that that are specifically tailored to the suggested equipment required for a SW tank aside from some live rock, a protein skimmer, heater and some water pumps.

 

[svejil]

I don't know where all the these great fish stores are.

In my experience they tend to be back in the 90's with their husbandry. If they weren't why would they have bioballs & biowheels for sale for salt tanks?

Texas. I have one where you would marvel at their reef tank, and yes they vodka dose, calc reactors, and have / utilize all of the latest technology. They have an Orphek LED fixture that I doubt many on this forum have even seen.

Yes, some are best left for dry goods, but a blanket statement that the net, and fellow reefers is the only place for reliable, and up to date technology is just not correct.

SV

 

[Angel*Fish]

I don't know what all this talk about people failing using new technologies is aimed at. That sounds like LFS speak. Who has suggested newbies try something new and untested?

but a blanket statement that the net, and fellow reefers is the only place for reliable, and up to date technology is just not correct.

SV

I don't believe that's what I said. I see that what I did say was too absolute. It was in response to the previous posts about how to figure out if the LFS guy is knowledgeable. To me that's irrelevant, because in way too many cases they aren't and a newbie is most vulnerable at the point of purchase. The average experience I see people reporting here is their LFS guided them wrong and they are extremely grateful they found RC.

Just because you found one store that's is on the cutting edge doesn't mean my advice was wrong for the other 99% of people who don't live bear you.

As mentioned by a poster above, the LFS specializes in knowing a little about a lot whereas here you find specialists in individual areas. The odds of getting that kind of advice at the LFS are much lower. There are people who don't know what they're talking about in both places. The big difference between RC and the LFS is here you're much more likely to get to talk to real experts and get point of views from LOTS of experienced hobbyists.

 

[Angel*Fish]

And to the person who posted about why books are still useful, I agree. But if that was in rebuttal to any of my posts, please read the thread.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Texas. I have one where you would marvel at their reef tank, and yes they vodka dose, calc reactors, and have / utilize all of the latest technology. They have an Orphek LED fixture that I doubt many on this forum have even seen.

Yes, some are best left for dry goods, but a blanket statement that the net, and fellow reefers is the only place for reliable, and up to date technology is just not correct.

SV

It really varies from city to city. IME, Houston & St. Louis have some incredible LFSs with very knowledgeable, down-to-earth people working there. Conversely, New Orleans and KC have mostly crappy kids working at the LFSs. Or the LFSs that do have a knowledgeable person (usually the owner) working there... he's usually kinda sullen and just weird with you. That's just been my experience in 4 different cities.

 

[clownfreak]

In my experience they tend to be back in the 90's with their husbandry. If they weren't why would they have bioballs & biowheels for sale for salt tanks?

Bioballs can still have their place in the hobby, they're just higher maintence. If they get rinsed regularly to clear out trapped debris, they are a very effective tool which is why many breeders use them.

 

[madean]

funkhouse- so you can see how people approach this hobby in different ways just by simply posting a question about etiquette. Some people are passionat about books, internet, LFS, mentors, local reef clubs. Every situation is different. One of my first jobs was at a local fish store that was kind a specialty store that brought in a lot of exotic stuff and equipement compared to any other store in the area. We had some folks that new more about nothing that relates to this hobby and we had the gurus who could tell that certains water perameters were off by looking at the tank inhabitants. Everybody's situation is different. It is not a good idea to stick your hand in any tank unless permission is granted by whomever. whether its a lfs, or fellow reefer, or at the atlantis aquarium. If you frequent certain lfs that seem to have nice, unique or rare stuff- you will probably start to recognize which employees constantly have the "crowds" of people asking questions and which employees scrub algea off the tank wall or run the cash register. Remember everybody starts somewhere and a lot of good advice is given above in previous posts. You will need to start deciphering which information is good and which to discard. Try to get your info from multiple sources. This hobby is open to interpretation and there are thousands of ways to accomplish what you want to accomplish. You do need to put the work in. Try to understand as much as possible and you will be more succesful in this hobby. Good luck. If you have any questions just ask. Research your question. But be prepared to get the good the bad and the ugly answer. I have seen people rip others (well try) to shreads on threads. Dont get discouraged just keep plugging away.

 

[Chris27]

LFS's aren't all bad, in fact, for every bad one there are most likely two good ones. Right here where I live there are at least 5 stores that are fantastic. Some of the owners are degreed biologists, some were hobbyists like us that have been doing this from the beginning of time, and others are just plain ol' passionate about what they do and keep on the cutting edge.

If everyone of us was as passionate about the hobby as they are, there would be a store on every corner. As it is, stores don't open because of the money, there isn't much to be had in the SW retail market, it's about the love of the hobby, and the willingness to share that enthusiasm with others.

If you walk into a store and show a bit of respect to them, most times you will have a positive experience that will develop into a great relationship. On the other side, if you walk into a store and tell the owner he's a jackass, and you can get everything cheaper on the internet, then surely you'll be treated like the jerk that you are. And let's not forget about the young kids working there, they are in training, they like pets, fish, whatever and got a job working with them, if they were in it just for a job they would be working at a grocery store or McDonald's as they pay much better. Cut them a little slack, everyone of us was a newby at some point, knowledge comes from experience.

 

[Angel*Fish]

It really varies from city to city. IME, Houston & St. Louis have some incredible LFSs with very knowledgeable, down-to-earth people working there. Conversely, New Orleans and KC have mostly crappy kids working at the LFSs. Or the LFSs that do have a knowledgeable person (usually the owner) working there... he's usually kinda sullen and just weird with you. That's just been my experience in 4 different cities.

What are the good stores in Houston? I've stayed out of them for the last few years, but I did walk into Aquarium World today and I couldn't believe my eyes. Other than changing the 40,000 g salt tank to freshwater, it was almost no different than 5 years ago. I guess they figure if it aint broke... Anyway, I spoke with an employee who was still there after 5 years. I asked her something about their Herald's angels. They always have them and they had 4 today, but she kept telling me they only come in once in a while. Finally she said ----oh, you mean the "yellow angel", those aren't Herald's -- Herald's angels are the ones with the black tip .

She told me she'd never heard of sexing angels and I know why. Because the owner told me that in his mariine biology days he had dissected hundreds of flame angels and he was certain that there is no sexual dichromatism within individual populations.

So while all of you are having wonderful experiences - that is typical of mine.

Bioballs can still have their place in the hobby, they're just higher maintence. If they get rinsed regularly to clear out trapped debris, they are a very effective tool which is why many breeders use them.

So if someone wants to get started in salt water you're going to recommend bioballs - is that what you're saying?

Try to understand as much as possible and you will be more successful in this hobby. Good luck. If you have any questions just ask. Research your question. But be prepared to get the good the bad and the ugly answer. I have seen people rip others (well try) to shreds on threads. Dont get discouraged just keep plugging away.

x2

LFS's aren't all bad, in fact, for every bad one there are most likely two good ones. Right here where I live there are at least 5 stores that are fantastic. Some of the owners are degreed biologists, some were hobbyists like us that have been doing this from the beginning of time, and others are just plain ol' passionate about what they do and keep on the cutting edge.


If you walk into a store and show a bit of respect to them, most times you will have a positive experience that will develop into a great relationship. On the other side, if you walk into a store and tell the owner he's a jackass, and you can get everything cheaper on the internet, then surely you'll be treated like the jerk that you are. And let's not forget about the young kids working there, they are in training, they like pets, fish, whatever and got a job working with them, if they were in it just for a job they would be working at a grocery store or McDonald's as they pay much better. Cut them a little slack, everyone of us was a newby at some point, knowledge comes from experience.

You seem to live in a reefing hotbed

LFS's aren't "bad". They just are not the best place to get advice. Why anyone would argue with that is beyond me. Surely anyone can figure out there are exceptions, but it's excellent general policy. I'm not the first person who has thought of it

I agree, I think we should cut them plenty of slack and not be expecting expert advice. Like I said before, do NOT rely on LFS for information. Do the research yourself. You'd think I had insulted somebody's momma.