Questions about going fallow

[The Reef Addict]

Hello everyone,

I've read some stickys here on the forum, and I can truly say I have learned a lot of great stuff about parasites and diseases! As always, much appreciated :thumbsup:

I just lost a powder blue tang from ich (seemed to come and go), he was absolutely fine last night and he was chowing down on mysis. I am obviously pretty frustrated, but I realize now is the time to do this right, and cure my tank from ich once and for all. Time to go fallow!

I have a reef tank, currently housing 2 clowns, 2 neon gobies, 2 cleaner shrimps, 2 fire shrimps, a pistol shrimp/watchman goby, reef lobster, and a Mandarin. None of which are/have shown any physical signs of ich, but regardless I plan to QT them all! Which brings me to a couple questions I have about treatment process, etc.

1) Are my cleaner/fire/pistol shrimps and reef lobster able to stay in the DT during the fallow period? (just double checking, I know they are technically inverts)

2) Do my watchman goby/Mandarin need to be quarantined as well? Im worried about pods especially for the Mandarin. (and ive seen some debate on this, no clear answer)

3) While my fish are in QT, can I use the low salinity treatment instead of copper/other alternatives with 100% success? (seems less harsh) What is the best way to achieve this? Can I just drip acclimate them to my QT with a salinity of 1.09 and put them in? (luckily all my current fish are real hardy, so I think that could be a possibility)

Sorry for the long post, Thanks in advance!

 

[The Reef Addict]

Actually, I found some great info on hypo salinity treatment. I understand how to acclimate them and such now, but I have a question on temperature for QT. My heater is stuck on 80-82F, is this an ok temperature? And when I do WC, do I have to make sure the fresh water is the same temp?

 

[The Reef Addict]

Anyone?

 

[dweber618]

Hello everyone,

I've read some stickys here on the forum, and I can truly say I have learned a lot of great stuff about parasites and diseases! As always, much appreciated :thumbsup:

I just lost a powder blue tang from ich (seemed to come and go), he was absolutely fine last night and he was chowing down on mysis. I am obviously pretty frustrated, but I realize now is the time to do this right, and cure my tank from ich once and for all. Time to go fallow!

I have a reef tank, currently housing 2 clowns, 2 neon gobies, 2 cleaner shrimps, 2 fire shrimps, a pistol shrimp/watchman goby, reef lobster, and a Mandarin. None of which are/have shown any physical signs of ich, but regardless I plan to QT them all! Which brings me to a couple questions I have about treatment process, etc.

1) Are my cleaner/fire/pistol shrimps and reef lobster able to stay in the DT during the fallow period? (just double checking, I know they are technically inverts)

yes, you can leave them in

2) Do my watchman goby/Mandarin need to be quarantined as well? Im worried about pods especially for the Mandarin. (and ive seen some debate on this, no clear answer)

someone else will have to chime in on this, I would say yes to the goby, mandarin is questionable as their slime coat is better at staving off the parasite. However to guarantee a higher success rate I wouldn't chance leaving him in there

3) While my fish are in QT, can I use the low salinity treatment instead of copper/other alternatives with 100% success? (seems less harsh) What is the best way to achieve this? Can I just drip acclimate them to my QT with a salinity of 1.09 and put them in? (luckily all my current fish are real hardy, so I think that could be a possibility)

hyposalinity can be tricky to do successfully for some as it's difficult to keep the salinity constant and requires a lot of monitoring. I know there is a sticky or blog maybe to hypo guidelines on here (maybe in disesae treatment (sk8r wrote up the post)). The most recommend options for ich that I have seen on the forums is Tank Transfer Method. Less room for error and easy to do.

Sorry for the long post, Thanks in advance!

 

[The Reef Addict]

Thanks for the response dweber. Im currently working on getting the watchman and neon gobies out, got the clowns in QT already. I do have 2 QT tanks I could use for transfer method, so I'll look into that as well. If I do move my mandarin to QT, I would think it would have a very low rate for survival as I cant get her feeding off meaty foods.. And my watchman would need to be seperated from everyone as he can be a bit aggressive. Any tips?

 

[The Reef Addict]

I just read snorvichs writeup on tank transfer method, which was very informative and I like that its a fast process.. But Im thinking because I do not have any ultra sensitive fish I may just stick with the hypo salinity method, as Im going to have to leave my DT fallow for atleast 8 weeks anyways.. Plus I dont think my fish would be very fond of going from a 29g to a 10g for transfer method lol

 

[dweber618]

Maybe read through this recent thread and see if it leads you anywhere regarding your mandarin. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2564502&highlight=mandarin+qt


For your aggressive fish you could build a tank divider - that's what I had to do with my current fish. Google DIY tank dividers and see if you can find something that works for you.

 

[ThRoewer]

...
hyposalinity can be tricky to do successfully for some as it's difficult to keep the salinity constant and requires a lot of monitoring. ...

Keeping low salinity stable is super easy - you would need 4 times the evaporation volume to get a 0.001 change than at normal salinity.
Once the salinity is set correctly, all you need is to maintain it is to mark the water level and refill RO as needed. It gets even easier if you cover the tank to limit evaporation.

 

[The Reef Addict]

Maybe read through this recent thread and see if it leads you anywhere regarding your mandarin. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2564502&highlight=mandarin+qt


For your aggressive fish you could build a tank divider - that's what I had to do with my current fish. Google DIY tank dividers and see if you can find something that works for you.

Thanks for the link, I have been looking up related posts all day... Decided to take out the Mandarin too, just as a precaution. I guess I would rsther not risk ich coming back.. Hopefully my mandarin will start accepting frozen foods, or i can get enough pods/live brine for the duration of the fallow process. I currently have my watchman in a seperate tank, all are doing well so far.. Dropped salinity to 1.02, will proceed with lower salinity tomorrow

 

[The Reef Addict]

Keeping low salinity stable is super easy - you would need 4 times the evaporation volume to get a 0.001 change than at normal salinity.
Once the salinity is set correctly, all you need is to maintain it is to mark the water level and refill RO as needed. It gets even easier if you cover the tank to limit evaporation.

I was planning on doing the first part you mentioned about the water mark... But actually a cover is something i can easily accomplish, a local shop will cut glass for me fairly cheap and I can place it in top as a cover.. I think ill get that done in the next day or so as i continue to drop salinity

 

[ThRoewer]

Do not drop the salinity slowly in the tank you have the fish. Set up a new, clean tank and fill it about 3/4 with RO water. Then add saltwater until the salinity is 1.009 (this saltwater can be from the infected DT as long as it is taken out of the water column during the afternoon while the lights are still on.)
Make sure the water is at the right temperature and check the salinity again. When it is right I would let the tank 1 to 2 more days without fish.
After that you can just drip the fish in within an hour. I've just done this with 3 regal angels and they handled it very well.
When you do it this way there will be no cysts in the tank and the fish will be clean after 2 weeks.
Hyposalinity works by preventing the ripe protomonts that fall off the fish from encysting and therefore reproducing. If they can't encyst they will die off after a short while. Fish might actually even eat them.
After a week in hyposalinity you shouldn't see any more spots on the fish. If you still see spots after 2 weeks you may be dealing with one of the Taiwanese ich strains that can live in brackish water with very low salinities. In that case just switch to TTM at hyposalinity.

I also dose a bit 2 part alk & Ca to keep the pH up and the Ca levels about right.

 

[jbvdhp]

Do not drop the salinity slowly in the tank you have the fish. Set up a new, clean tank and fill it about 3/4 with RO water. Then add saltwater until the salinity is 1.009 (this saltwater can be from the infected DT as long as it is taken out of the water column during the afternoon while the lights are still on.)

Make sure the water is at the right temperature and check the salinity again. When it is right I would let the tank 1 to 2 more days without fish.

After that you can just drip the fish in within an hour. I've just done this with 3 regal angels and they handled it very well.

When you do it this way there will be no cysts in the tank and the fish will be clean after 2 weeks.

Hyposalinity works by preventing the ripe protomonts that fall off the fish from encysting and therefore reproducing. If they can't encyst they will die off after a short while. Fish might actually even eat them.

After a week in hyposalinity you shouldn't see any more spots on the fish. If you still see spots after 2 weeks you may be dealing with one of the Taiwanese ich strains that can live in brackish water with very low salinities. In that case just switch to TTM at hyposalinity.



I also dose a bit 2 part alk & Ca to keep the pH up and the Ca levels about right.

Realistically, what's the likelihood of one coming across the Taiwanese strain, you know?

 

[The Reef Addict]

Do not drop the salinity slowly in the tank you have the fish. Set up a new, clean tank and fill it about 3/4 with RO water. Then add saltwater until the salinity is 1.009 (this saltwater can be from the infected DT as long as it is taken out of the water column during the afternoon while the lights are still on.)
Make sure the water is at the right temperature and check the salinity again. When it is right I would let the tank 1 to 2 more days without fish.
After that you can just drip the fish in within an hour. I've just done this with 3 regal angels and they handled it very well.
When you do it this way there will be no cysts in the tank and the fish will be clean after 2 weeks.
Hyposalinity works by preventing the ripe protomonts that fall off the fish from encysting and therefore reproducing.

I also dose a bit 2 part alk & Ca to keep the pH up and the Ca levels about right.

Thanks a bunch for the tips! The reason I did it the way I did was because I read of some guys putting fish in QT at normal salinity and dropping it to 1.09 overnight.. Which I was not about to do given the stress of the fish (literally had to take all but one giant rock out of the DT to catch them)

I respect what you are saying, and belive me I appreciate the advice but do you really think I need to reset my QT? None of my current fish have any spots/visible diseases, and they never have! Im going fallow to make sure my system is 99% clean, so I no longer have to worry about (prissy, sensitive, pita) tangs/angels constantly battling ich. Plus im kind of being a baby about having to wait another several hours for my r/o to make enough water for another full w/c. :lol: I literally put all 29g and another 10g of new water In right before I added the fish, at 1.025.

 

[ThRoewer]

Realistically, what's the likelihood of one coming across the Taiwanese strain, you know?

Outside Taiwan - probably quite low, especially in the US or Europe where no saltwater fish are imported from Taiwan.
China, Japan and other Asian regions that buy fish from Taiwanese wholesalers have a higher chance.

 

[bat21]

Is hyposalinity as effective as TTM? I live in a one bedroom apt with a cat. TTM is very hard for me to accomplish, but I want to be able to ensure fish are ich-free before going into my DT.

 

[ThRoewer]

As a treatment against ich hyposalinity is as effective as TTM, but as a preventive measure to make sure healthy looking fish don't have any ich hidden on them TTM is preferable. The most reliable method is to combine both.

 

[The Reef Addict]

When I do water changes, must the fresh water be the same temperature as the tank water? I understand you cant raise the temp, but if I add cooler water that then heats up to normal temp will it cause issues? I have been trying to match temp as best as possible so far (still dropping salinity)

I also plan on using sodium carbonate (? Forget if that's the right term) for ph... Any idea how much will be needed per 5g or so? I heard around 7.8 is ok for hypo treatment?

 

[The Reef Addict]

Ive actually been re-thinking about what you said ThRoewer. I think I will go ahead with TTM, maybe go a little longer than the recommended time frame, and put them in my 29g QT for the remainder of my DTs fallow period. This would give me plenty of observation time, although none of my fish have spots right now.. And it would also allow for faster additions for me in the future. The only PITA is that I will probably have to put the tank in another room.. I believe I read parasites can affect other tanks within 10ft of each other?

Anyways, just picked up another 10g tank, couple heaters and air stones so I can begin TTM. Costed me less than a refractometer, which I will eventually have to get, but I can start TTM today.

 

[tastyfish]

Hello everyone,

I've read some stickys here on the forum, and I can truly say I have learned a lot of great stuff about parasites and diseases! As always, much appreciated :thumbsup:

I just lost a powder blue tang from ich (seemed to come and go), he was absolutely fine last night and he was chowing down on mysis. I am obviously pretty frustrated, but I realize now is the time to do this right, and cure my tank from ich once and for all. Time to go fallow!

Sorry to hear this. I had a complete wipe out due to a whitespot like protozoan. The first thing to be sure of is that it is Cryptocaryon (marine Ich) and not something else. (Brook, velvet or another protozoan infection).

I have a reef tank, currently housing 2 clowns, 2 neon gobies, 2 cleaner shrimps, 2 fire shrimps, a pistol shrimp/watchman goby, reef lobster, and a Mandarin. None of which are/have shown any physical signs of ich, but regardless I plan to QT them all! Which brings me to a couple questions I have about treatment process, etc.

1) Are my cleaner/fire/pistol shrimps and reef lobster able to stay in the DT during the fallow period? (just double checking, I know they are technically inverts)

Yes, current thinking is that they cannot be infected, although of course, could transport pathogens (cysts etc).

2) Do my watchman goby/Mandarin need to be quarantined as well? Im worried about pods especially for the Mandarin. (and ive seen some debate on this, no clear answer)

There shouldn't be any debate. Any fish left in the tank is a potential host which renders your entire fallow period ineffective. You must remove ALL fish from the tank and leave fallow for 12 weeks ideally.

3) While my fish are in QT, can I use the low salinity treatment instead of copper/other alternatives with 100% success? (seems less harsh) What is the best way to achieve this? Can I just drip acclimate them to my QT with a salinity of 1.09 and put them in? (luckily all my current fish are real hardy, so I think that could be a possibility)

Sorry for the long post, Thanks in advance!

When I had my outbreak, many were suggesting Hypo salinity had proved to be relatively ineffective against cryptocaryon compared to other treatments such as copper and chloroquine.. I would go down the route of copper, or Chloroquine which has the advantage that it is perhaps kinder to tangs and easier to administer as you don't need to constantly monitor the levels and correct.

 

[The Reef Addict]

Tastyfish, thanks for your input! Im pretty positive it was ich, not my first run in with it unfortunately. But im hoping to put an end to that.

I did end up removing all fish after enough research. All thats left are my inverts (including shrimps/lobster). I read of a few instances where people had luck with a mandarin in the DT during fallow period, but I decided not to chance it.. Luck isnt my thing lol.

After 10-12 weeks of being fallow, wouldnt ich and other cysts perish from being a carrier on say, a shrimp? Ive yet to have any experiences with cysts/bacterial infections, so forgive me if what I said sounds stupid.

Is TTM just as effective as copper? From what Ive read, if done correctly it is.. Maybe I should do TTM and copper? I will certainly have time!

Thanks!!