Questions for the Pros...

[PIPSTER]

:dance: Hi everybody...newbie here...

Trying to look at starting a low budget reef w\ some fish.
Please answer my questions in the context my needs, which are:
1. I just want 2-3 coral, frogspawn, torch, and hammerhead...or anything that's easy that has the flowing anemone look.
2. I want just 3-4 fish, cardinal, percula, something that looks like a blue tang, and gobe (maybe).

So, I think I can get by with 30 gallon, as minimum for beginner, but I need to bring up my logical arguments to see if I'm not thinking straight, or to pick your brains....

1. why does that larger the tank, the larger the sump? is it because it's assumed the person will have more livestock? why do nano tanks usually have no sump, and rely on water changes, but 100g tanks have 50g sumps, and still, people mostly do 5%-15% water changes?

2. I would think the smaller the tank, the larger the sump, to have higher total water capacity for stability reasons.

3. why can't I just have my 6-7 animals in a 15 gallon, with no sump, no filters, just love rock and sand and frequent water changes? does anybody do this or know anybody who does this?

please feel free to respond honestly, and with detail...i need to know this...i'm not going to have more than 8 animals between fish and coral...no sps.

Thanks

 

[m0nkie]

certainly no expert... but here's some good reason

1) larger tanks require larger equipment. a larger sump can keep all those equipment inside. also, if your pump stops working, and DT water start draining into the sump, it's a good idea to keep one big enough to handle the extra volume.

2) you could have a giant sump and small tank. but what for? small tank = smaller, fewer fish. (no blue tang). no need for a huge sump. But you certain could.

3) fish require room to swim. fish like tangs require LOTS of swimming room or else they stress and fight over territory. They will get sick, jump, or die fighting. The live rocks in there will not handle the bioload.. ammonia will kill off the rest of the fish.

you can probably have 2 fish in that 15gal... corals don't take bioload, so you can add all the ones you want. they might overgrow your tank soon

a good start is to look at websites like liveaquaria.com and see the recommended tank size for each fish you want. not many for a 15gal...

 

[Sk8r]

Healthy coral grows. A lot.
Plan room.
Also, the smaller your tank, the less leeway for mistakes. If you want what you describe, 30 to 50 gallons with metal halide lighting plus actinic twilight, or LEDs with stony coral capability; an Autotopoff unit; and a pump delivering about 950 gallons per hour.

The rig above could cost you as much as 3000.00 ---or you could get a 30 gallon all-in-one with proper lighting that could do quite well for you for about 300.00... IF you hold your fish load to a couple of gobies and blennies, a royal gramma, a dartfish. Four of the very small guys would do nicely there. If you want corals, I'd advise against clowns and an anemone, for one thing because anemones and corals are a dangerous combo.

You might be able to find an all-in-one that would cost you significantly less than 'new' price, because many who get those go on to upsize and need to sell their tank.

 

[fishhuman]

No blue tang like fish in anything less than a 125 gallon the closest it gets is a yellowtail damsel

 

[scott71]

I would go with a 65 or 75 gallon tank. If not, in a year you will wish you had not started so small. Too many cool fish and coral that you will want. Cheaper to go a little bigger up front!

 

[tommyboynj]

If you have the room, start with a 75. It provides enough water volume to help maintain stability and plenty of room for coral growth and several fish. It's a great size to start out because it will keep you happy for a few years. It's also an easy tank size to find used. In addition, a lot of the equipment you will buy for a 75 will also work up to about a 125. I ran a 75 for four years and it was a great learner tank. I since uped to 93 cube.

 

[Timfish]

Get Delbeek and Sprung's "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III (I think it's available on ibook). They discuss simple pumpless, sumpless filter systems. If you pay attention, research and are PATIENT you can have a pretty nice system with out much equipment and if you are going for really cheap network with local reefers, you can probably find stuff for free. (Locally it's amazing what some aquarists just throw away because they are tired of dealing with it or want to change the direction their tank is going.)

 

[shesacharmer]

Fish tend to be very territorial. They need more room than you think. A pretty blue fish for a 30 gallon tank is a Blue Reef Chromis. The Blue Gudgeon Dartfish is a pale blue fish that is peaceful and good for that size tank. A tank much smaller will seriously impact your choices. Clown fish are super territorial and will demand most of the tank to themselves if it's smaller than 30 gallons. It is possible to have a gorgeous small tank with lots of water changes and very careful planning. Most people who are new to the hobby don't have the patience to do the research required to be successful.

 

[PIPSTER]

Thanks everybody for the advice so far...

Can someone tell me about any known calculation about the amount of live sand and live rock vs. amount of fish in tank. When I say amount of sand and rock, I really mean tank size. For instance, what if I planned on 3 small, amiable fish, and 2-3 softie coral in a 45 gallon tank, with good "surface area", would I have enough biological natural "filteration", with good water movement, of course, to possibly "waive" the need for a mechanical filteration system, like what would be in a sump? And just do frequent 10-15% water changes?

I think I can beat the price of an "all in one", by getting most of the individual components at the entry level for each type...anyone already done this?

 

[fishhuman]

For live sand normally I would do 1 pound per gallon or 45 pounds, this depends on if you want a deep sand bed where you would add more sand) for live rock it really depends on your aquascape but I would do atleast 20 or 30 pounds. In your sump you will have a protien skimmer, heater, and filtration material with a refugiem. You can piece the materials together instead of all in one but remember that you get what you pay for

 

[Sk8r]

You don't use a mechanical filtration in a coral reef: the corals need the food. You do need a skimmer. The exception is sps corals, which are touchy and require crystal-clear water---and a filter sock may help them. A cannister filter is useful for fish-onlies, but actually harms corals because of the high nitrate it produces.

A sump is a very good thing. It requires a downflow box of some sort to bring water from the upper tank down to the sump, where a 'return pump' will send it back to the display tank.

A reef-ready tank is one with a factory installed downflow box glued in and ready for a standpipe kit, which connects hoses to the sump.

Bulkhead connectors (I was shocked when I asked Lowe's for one of these and they had no idea what I was talking about) are a two-piece gasketed screw-on (one on inside, one on out) that provide a leakproof connection between two areas---to get more room in my 30 gallon sump, for instance, I used a bulkhead connector to attach a non-submersible pump to my sump. This gave me room to put a lot of stuff in the sump: heater, skimmer pump, and a refugium (an area of sand, rock, and green growing moss which produces little crustaceans for fish to eat) ---

There's a huge collection of files up in the stickies called SETTING UP. That amounts to a free how-to book. That will help you decide what you need and want.