Questions on Seahorses Changing Color

[timinnl]

It's a 10 gallon tall. The two horses are the only inhabitants other than hermits/snails and they're still juveniles (they're supposed to get max 5-6", should end up with about 5x their height in vertical space when fully grown). Tank has been running for 2 months with parameters stable for the past 6 weeks.

I don't think it's stress but we'll see. They continue to change color each day. By end of day they're brighter and then they darken up a bit by morning. If environment is doing it then that would make sense (can't see anything but dark at night). Suppose I could leave a night light on for them.

Greetings from Amsterdam,

Don't take this the wrong way, but rayjay & namxas are correct in what they are telling you. Please try to upgrade the tank to a minimum one at least.

I think the dark color you are seeing is due to them being stress. 6 weeks into the cycle is a bit soon to have them in the tank. Speaking only for myself, I like to cycle my tanks a minimum of 12 weeks.

(Tank set up 8 weeks minus 2 weeks since you put them in = 6 weeks cycle correct?)

Remember they also need the width, height & depth of the tank to feel comfortable in.

The hermit crab is a very painful disaster waiting to happen. Claws + Seahorses = NIP TAILS.

Maybe you should consider this as a QT & buy a larger tank for them.

Kind regards,

Tim

 

[rayjay]

I have a friend with six kuda's about a year and a half old and they are already 7" and growing.
I don't know the dimensions of your 10g tall, but the tallest I've ever seen a ten was 20" so I don't see how you would get 5X their height even if they were only to grow 5" which is very unlikely.
The recommended tank size for a pair of normal sized seahorses is 29/30g with an extra 15g for each additional pair I believe.
I prefer to go with a sump in addition to the tank to increase the total volume for more forgiving water parameters.

 

[Faerl]

Valid points and I'll likely be upgrading the tank at some point. That said I don't believe tank size is what's causing the color change at the moment. I've seen the same type horses in LFS stores for months in spaces 1/16 of this size and still keep their color. The breeders also have them in much more confined spaces for a lot longer than this without it occurring either. As they get older I could see them eventually growing out the tank but it should be plenty of room for the near term.

The hermits in the tank are of a variety that seahorse source said were safe for horses, even dwarfs seahorses.

 

[timinnl]

Valid points and I'll likely be upgrading the tank at some point. That said I don't believe tank size is what's causing the color change at the moment. I've seen the same type horses in LFS stores for months in spaces 1/16 of this size and still keep their color. The breeders also have them in much more confined spaces for a lot longer than this without it occurring either. As they get older I could see them eventually growing out the tank but it should be plenty of room for the near term.

The hermits in the tank are of a variety that seahorse source said were safe for horses, even dwarfs seahorses.

May I ask where you are located? Are you sure it is the same seahorses in the 1/16 space at the pet shop? If it is the same ones for months, then they are not growing or there is not much demand for them where you live.

The breeder might have them more confined, but usually it is with a flow thru system or with larger filteration unit.

May I please have a link where SH source said they were ok?

Take Care,

Tim

 

[rayjay]

Valid points and I'll likely be upgrading the tank at some point. That said I don't believe tank size is what's causing the color change at the moment. I've seen the same type horses in LFS stores for months in spaces 1/16 of this size and still keep their color. The breeders also have them in much more confined spaces for a lot longer than this without it occurring either. As they get older I could see them eventually growing out the tank but it should be plenty of room for the near term.

The hermits in the tank are of a variety that seahorse source said were safe for horses, even dwarfs seahorses.

As Tim mentioned, in the store, the tank is probably part of a system with more water involved. Also, because there usually is little to nothing in the way of decor, they will mostly all colour according to just a base colour, or if a substrate exists, to blend with the substrate.
In breeding facilities, the offshore seahorses are shipped out at about 3 months of age so they don't have older ones in confined spaces.
Even so, their rearing systems are just that, a system with more to it than just the cement tank that they are reared in, with a lot more water and biological filtration involved.
Better places like seahorsesourc.com and seahorsecorral.com will grow the seahorses to an older stage, usually to a point they can be sexed, but still don't keep the same densities as they age as when they are younger. Again, their tanks are just part of a much larger volume and biological system.
While you may be correct in that the tank size is not causing the colour changes, it may more certainly be a cause of stress. I would liken it to someone placing a yellow tang in a 10g tank. Can be done for a bit, but sooner or later the stress will almost definitely out itself and result in disaster.

 

[Faerl]

Certainly the store tanks are part of a larger system. But that would assume that the reason for a larger tank is water parameters rather than size. At the moment my parameters appear to be good (granted, I need to watch them daily where with a larger system it would be more forgiving).

According to seahorse.org the minimum tank size for this type of horse is 15 gallons for pair (that's the first pair, 8 gallons per after that). So we're a bit under but they're also young. That shouldn't be enough to cause any significant stress. In 6 months it might.

Again, I'm planning on doing a larger seahorse tank. I am not discounting the concern and believe that as they get bigger it may well become an issue. By that point though I expect to have a larger tank already in place.

My tank is fairly bland still, hopefully the background color will help. Since I added the bright blue background they change a bit during the day but by morning were dark again. Not sure if that's from it being dark at night or the colors being used. Going to try the blue the rest of the week and then switch it out with some yellow.

 

[rayjay]

According to seahorse.org the minimum tank size for this type of horse is 15 gallons for pair (that's the first pair, 8 gallons per after that).

I'd like to see that reference as the only reference I find is in the seahorse care guide PDF where the chart shows 15g/pr minimum tank size 29g.
In the accompanying paragraph it states

For example, H. erectus, allow the first pair 29 gallons then 15 gallons per pair thereafter.

in explaining how to read the chart.

SEAHORE CARe GUIDE-PDF format

 

[timinnl]

Certainly the store tanks are part of a larger system. But that would assume that the reason for a larger tank is water parameters rather than size. At the moment my parameters appear to be good (granted, I need to watch them daily where with a larger system it would be more forgiving).

According to seahorse.org the minimum tank size for this type of horse is 15 gallons for pair (that's the first pair, 8 gallons per after that). So we're a bit under but they're also young. That shouldn't be enough to cause any significant stress. In 6 months it might.

Again, I'm planning on doing a larger seahorse tank. I am not discounting the concern and believe that as they get bigger it may well become an issue. By that point though I expect to have a larger tank already in place.

My tank is fairly bland still, hopefully the background color will help. Since I added the bright blue background they change a bit during the day but by morning were dark again. Not sure if that's from it being dark at night or the colors being used. Going to try the blue the rest of the week and then switch it out with some yellow.

I think you misread it http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/careguide/careguide.pdf It reads 15 gallon per pair. MINIMUM 29 gallons.

Also what country are you in?

 

[Faerl]

http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/SeahorseFactsAndInfo.pdf

I'm in the U.S.

 

[timinnl]

Certainly the store tanks are part of a larger system. But that would assume that the reason for a larger tank is water parameters rather than size. At the moment my parameters appear to be good (granted, I need to watch them daily where with a larger system it would be more forgiving).

According to seahorse.org the minimum tank size for this type of horse is 15 gallons for pair (that's the first pair, 8 gallons per after that). So we're a bit under but they're also young. That shouldn't be enough to cause any significant stress. In 6 months it might.

Again, I'm planning on doing a larger seahorse tank. I am not discounting the concern and believe that as they get bigger it may well become an issue. By that point though I expect to have a larger tank already in place.

My tank is fairly bland still, hopefully the background color will help. Since I added the bright blue background they change a bit during the day but by morning were dark again. Not sure if that's from it being dark at night or the colors being used. Going to try the blue the rest of the week and then switch it out with some yellow.

Sorry faerl & rayjay.

Faerl I think you read this one http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/SeahorseFactsAndInfo.shtml This is now outdated. It is from 2004. The one rayjay & I linked you to is the updated one.

Rayjay that is where he saw the tank size from.

Me BAD

 

[timinnl]

http://www.seahorse.org/library/articles/SeahorseFactsAndInfo.pdf

I'm in the U.S.

Yep that is the outdated one.

 

[Faerl]

I love tank recommendations. That one (old apparently) recommends 15g, the new one has decided it's 29g, I can find half a dozen other sites saying that 55 or 60 gallons is the absolute minimum. Clearly, as with all fish/animals bigger is better. Reminds me a little of the dog owners that claim you can't possibly own a dog unless it has 3 acres of land to run on. In either case I'll be upgrading the tank down the road. At the moment though, considering it's 1 pair and they're still young I don't think that's causing the color change I'm seeing at the moment. I'll continue the experiment and we'll see.

 

[rayjay]

The colour change doesn't bother me at all.
However, stress that may come from too small a confined volume does.
The reason that seahorse.org changed the recommendations is that there were problems with the old recommendations.
Because seahorse.org has so much traffic related to the seahorse keeping hobby, their recommendations should be considered before those of other sites where there are major differences.
If you want to justify something you are doing, no matter what the topic, you can find someplace somewhere that will give you justification for doing so. That doesn't make it correct.

 

[Faerl]

I'm not trying to justify anything. On the contrary, I've stated several times that I was planning to upgrade the tank. The original question was has anyone had seahorses change color on them and successfully reversed it, and if so by what method. Sounds like the answer overwhelming is no, that they'll do what they want but environment can sometimes affect things.

At the moment they're still changing daily, they're dark in the morning (no lights on at night) and then lighter as the day progresses. If they were stressed for any reason I would expect them to stay dark. I'll continue changing the colors around the tank to see if that affects anything. When I do upgrade the size on the tank I'll see what that does as well. Thanks for the info.

 

[timinnl]

All the best then.

 

[Faerl]

I have something coming up in a couple weeks which may allow me to do the eventual upgrade a bit early. So on the realm of tanks. Any thoughts on this one?
http://www.jbjnanocubes.com/contents/en-us/p10979_28_Gallon_Nano_Cube_Led_Powered_Sale.html
It's an all in one, but with LED lighting. Wondering if that wouldn't help with the issue many of the all in ones have with running too hot for the horses.

Also, for those that own more than 1 pair of seahorses. Are you really running 29 gallons for 1 pair, 15 for each additional? Seems like there would be a whole lot of empty space in the tank just having 2 in there.

 

[ann83]

Also, for those that own more than 1 pair of seahorses. Are you really running 29 gallons for 1 pair, 15 for each additional? Seems like there would be a whole lot of empty space in the tank just having 2 in there.

65 gallons for a pair here

Its only a waste of space if your seahorses are so stressed that they don't swim around. A single pair of seahorses can easily use up all the space in a 65 gallon, not that there wouldn't be room for more, but if you start going smaller than 30 gallons or so, there's no room for them to use.

 

[Faerl]

If I do the upgrade I wouldn't bother going less than ~30g. The spot I currently have my tank is right next to my desk. It's nice because I can see them as well as my corals etc in a place I spend a great deal of time. However, the space isn't huge. I know I can fit a 29g all in one w/ stand without a problem. Not sure if I can fit anything larger there short of doing a custom job. Certainly can't fit 45 gallons.

 

[Faerl]

Ann,
On your 65 gallon. Is it just the 1 pair of seahorses and no other fish at all (ignoring hermits, snails and such)? Obviously there's a limited variety of fish that are seahorse safe.

 

[ann83]

29 gallons should be fine for two kuda.