Questions on Seahorses Changing Color

Because it is a 65 gallon, I do have other passive fish in there, obviously. I still keep the stocking level very low though. There are 3 small fish in the tank. Several snails, possibly a peppermint shrimp or two, and no hermits (I see no use for hermits, and prefer not to have to buy new snails or worry about seahorse tails).
 
I would first look at the tank situation and any tankmates before thinking it's the food. My guess is they aren't happy with something and/or are stressed.
Tom

Thank you for basically dismissing my comments, Scott and Ray. No offense to the OP, but it's quite likely the reason for the black/dark coloration is exactly as I stated.

Faerl, if you don't mind.... please let me know, if upon upgrading the tank, their "normal" coloration returns. One other thing...since keeping seahorses can be rather addictive, once you upgrade - you can start planning all the other seahorse tanks you're bound to set up! :lmao:

Tom
 
ReefNut,
I'll definitely let you know, if the colors change I'll update with what worked/didn't. I started giving the live brine extra phytoplankton before feeding time. I'm also enriching the mysis with the same (enrichment's haven't arrived yet). At this point I'm not sure if they'd change even with a 60 gallon tank. I started out with mostly dry rock so it's got that beige look to it (it's live enough now that even with the horses parameters stay perfect but bulk of it still has the color). In the morning they're black, by evening they're about half black, half that same color beige so I'm curious if they're trying to match that.

On upgrading, what I want eventually is 3-4 horses and a couple smaller fish. The two horses were supposed to be a pair but I ended up with two females. If I upgrade I'd like to add at least 1 male for them (hense the 3-4 horses). Then maybe a coupe of small fish (rainbow goby, dwarf pipefish or something along those lines) just for variety. According to the 29g+15g per pair recommendation though I'd need 60 gallon tank and that's just too large for the space. Short of custom I'm not seeing anything larger than 29-34g there (ignoring if I added a sump which would happen eventually). I kinda like that 28g LED all in one from above. It would fit nicely and with the LED's might be able to get away without a chiller.
 
Thank you for basically dismissing my comments, Scott and Ray. No offense to the OP, but it's quite likely the reason for the black/dark coloration is exactly as I stated.
I'm not sure what this is all about, but if you mean that we have a difference of opinion, do I not have the right to voice my opinion if you can voice yours?
 
I really think that 3 horses and a few fish tankmates is going to be too crowded for a 29 gallon, not to mention, the bioload is going to be larger than an all-in-one would be able to handle. At the very least, I would recommend a sump and oversized skimmer in addition to macro algae.
 
Thank you for basically dismissing my comments, Scott and Ray. No offense to the OP, but it's quite likely the reason for the black/dark coloration is exactly as I stated.

It was not meant to dimissive, just clarify the causes of seahorses becoming darker. In this instance, you may be correct. At the time, neither you nor I knew the details of the tank, so your comments seemed to be rather presumptuous. If I had created the same exact post as the OP and you replied in the same manner you would have been incorrect.

Furthermore, I never said that seahorses "never change to darker colors because of stress". I said "I'm not so sure" and "IME" and in my second post I said "seahorses that adopt darker coloration are often not stressed". I was giving my experiences and providing an alternate explanation for why seahorses might change to darker colors.

Scott
 
First:
There was a very important param missing in your list -- the temp of that 10 gallon tank. What is the tank's temp running at? Temp can affect important things, like the oxygen carrying capacity of your water. What type of filtration and water movement is on the tank? Is there anywhere for these seahorses to hitch?

I wouldn't dismiss your low pH, either. When did you test the pH? Was it after the lights had been off for a few hours, or after they had been on for several hours? A 7.8 might be okay if it was the lowest point during a 24 hour cycle, but not if it was the highest the pH ever reached in that tank.

I think it would be difficult for anyone to assess the stress level of these horses without first knowing the above, along w/ the dimensions of this 10 gallon tank and seeing photos of the horses in question.

B:
Tom has experience w/ numerous seahorses, and he has seen horses that darken in response to stress. Scott probably has more current exprience w/ a particular species of horse than many do w/ that same species, and his observations are that these horses' colors are more a response to camouflage than to show well-being. Ray has worked hard for success raising difficult pelagic horse fry, and both he and Tim have successfully kept different species of horses. Each person's experience w/ their horses is a bit different, in part because each person's species are different, their source for stock has been different, and their methods of keeping are different.

Humans traditionally haven't thought of "animals" as being "different" from one another -- having preferences and habits. Most people certainly do not like to think that animals have personalities. But consider how much of your personality includes your "preferences" and "habits." I have no idea how far down the chain of animal-kind these traits go, but IMO fish show "personalities." That is why people tell you to observe your tank -- so you get to know what is "usual" for your tank, so you'll notice when one of your animals is telling you that there is something wrong.

So, perhaps the questions of colors are not only affected by species, environment, and stress, but by "personality" as well. After living in the relative safety of captivity for some time, a horse may modify its habits somewhat. Or its habits may be over-run by the influence of age over species-specific traits (perhaps juvies are more likely to try to blend in w/ surrounds than the adults?)

Third:
However, I think that what the people who have been posting to this thread have been trying to show your, recently, is that, beyond the hypothetical musings of horses and their color, one important thing has come to light in this thread: some veteran seahorse keepers are trying to help you be successful w/ your seahorses by recommending that you use your 10 gallon tank as a QT tank only. As for your upgrade, IME, many people would be happy to have two female horses, and that is especially appropriate for someone who is new to keeping. The horses are as likely to interact w/ one another as they would be to interact w/ a new male, and you don't have to worry about troublesome pouch issues. Plus, its not as though kuda fry are easy to raise. If a 29 gallon is all that is going to fit in your tank location, then get the tank and give up the idea of multiple additional fish. If you have multiple months of success w/ these two horses in the larger tank, then you can think about the addition of a single nano goby as a tank mate, but then you really are going to be at your limit.

As far as whether people really set up their systems based on the org recommendations: I bought a 56 column tank for 4 horses of a species that grows significantly smaller than the one that you have -- H. fuscus.
 
To answer your questions.

Temp stays between 72-74. No chiller, has a heater but it rarely kicks in. The lights (20w compact fluorescent) tend to bring it up a degree over the course of the day which is the reason for the range. The filtration isn't amazing on the tank. No idea what the gph is (though it's low, probably 2-3x. Levels stay stable though even with the horses feeding. The sexy shrimp and hermits seem to do a good job of cleaning up any food they miss without fighting the horses for it.

PH is generally tested in the afternoon to evening. I've never seen it lower than 7.8 and I'm slowly working to get it back to 8.2.

Don't have the dimensions of the tank off hand (I'm at the office) but it's a 10g tall. There are 6 or so hitching posts in there (plus whatever they feel like grabbing onto, feather dusters, rock etc).

I think my plan right now is to find a solid 28-34g tank. The one I mentioned above looks like it should work, shouldn't have the heat issues normally attributed to all-in-ones (full LED's) and flow can be adjusted to be a bit under 10x. It also has a compartment in the back for chaeto etc to help with the levels. Right now I run roughly 10lbs of rock so when it's ready I'll transfer that over but keep it under 12-13lbs total. Should make any additional space almost completely new swimming room. I'm not that concerned with getting a male, mostly I just want something beyond just the two horses in there. I'll probably start with the two and see how things go from there.
 
Elysia makes a very good point about the ph. I find the 7.8 for afternoon testing very worrying. You should test your ph first thing in the morning before the lights come on. Chances are its dropping even lower at night; which could lead to a dangerous situation.
 
Retested this morning and it's at 7.8 still. I'll see if I an get a bit more consistent about getting the PH+ in there every day vs every couple of days.
 
Something you might want to try before adding a lot of booster to try to raise the ph is to see if it's a gas exchange problem.
In winter, or in summer with A/C running and with the home all shut up, the CO2 levels increase in the home to the point it becomes more difficult to get a proper gas exchange at the surface of the water in the tank.
If the CO2 can't come out of the water enough, the pH is forced to remain low, and normally, adding pH boosters is at best a temporary fix and may not do anything at all.
Take a sample of water outdoors, and use an air pump to aerate it for about an hour.
Check the pH BEFORE doing this, and at the END of the one hour period. If there is an increase in pH of .1 or more, then you have an exchange problem.
Some things to look at would be a fan blowing across the water's surface, increased surface agitation, and sometimes having to open a window so the CO2 levels drop and the O2 levels increase in the home itself.
 
I've heard the blue background and the bare bottom tank helps with coloration. I have the blue background and I am considering the bare bottom. Coloration IMO is enhanced by environment, but the fish will ultimately decide.
Having said that, you really do need a bigger tank.
The JBJ cube isn't big enough to have long term success - this is based on a friend with many years in the marine aquaria industry, he tried / repeatedly.
 
The JBJ cube isn't big enough to have long term success - this is based on a friend with many years in the marine aquaria industry, he tried / repeatedly.

Yeah, leaning towards a 34g one at the moment. I really like that JBJ one but it's a bit shorter (to waterline 17") and usable space ends up being closer to 20g. The 34g one would suck down some more power but it's taller (20.5" to waterline) and has 28g of usable. Need to make some more calls on cost for chiller etc.

The usable space is just pulling out the refug in the back.
 
So small update. Various background colors haven't worked all that well. At least not turning them back yellow. However, they have started turning on their own to a small degree. I'll the smaller female in particular turn the entire front side of her body to a yellow and then back again within a matter of minutes. I've also noticed them both go to more a dark yellow which matches a lot of the dry rock fairly well. I'd still like to get some more colorful corals in there to see if they'll match that but I'm holding for the new tank.

The PH issue I believe is a lack of flow in the tank. I had a couple of smaller feather dusters that tries to leave their tubes when they were at the very bottom. I moved them up top and haven't had the issue again. Tried moving them down again as an experiment and same response. The flow is pretty low and it's a tall tank so I think it's an issue with getting enough oxygen all the way to the bottom. I have a circulation pump that would help with that but it's way too high for the horses for any length of time (not adjustable and would hit 24x on the flow). I've tried turning it on for limited time in the evening (pointed against a wall to limit the flow a bit) and when it's running the horses seem to like to come out and play in the flow (ie, they actively go to swim in it, they're not actually bouncing off the walls or anything). However, it's too strong to be left on for any length of time.

In the longer term though I'm working on the new tank setup to see what that does. The stand arrived yesterday, just need to do the modifications to get a final size for ordering a custom tank. Best guess is it'll end up a 35g tank with a 10-15g sump beneath.
 
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