If you go 400 radium the best ballast is the pro 400watt hqi otherwise know as the son of agro ballast. Its really a hps ballast that overdrives the bulb at 430 watts and gives great color. If you go 250 radiums best is m80 ballast (brand doesnt really matter much). I run 400 in lumen arc 3 big reflectors and won't be going led till they can match up. I change the 400 radium bulb every 10 months.
Radium 400W
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alton
Well-known member
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The front left on the sand has a PAR reading of 200
kalgra
New member
I know this is an older thread but am looking for some advice.
I am running 400W Radiums on Venture son agro S51 ballasts. This is the same as what PFO used to call their 400 HQI ballast.
In fact I had purchased a 7 year old used dual PFO HQI ballast and ran that for a while knowing full well It was at the end of its life cycle and id need to replace the guts of the ballast. I went directly to Venture lighting and bought the identical parts down to part number and specs to rebuild the ballasts and yes they are identical.
Heres my dilemma. About 4 months in running my Radiums for 4 hours a day one of them blew the fly wire on the bulb. I didnt think too much of it but decided to go ahead and replace the guts of the ballast at that time sinse that particular one seemed to drive the bulb at a different color anyway.
I rebuilt the ballasts and fired them up on brand new bulbs and was pleased to see nice even color between the two, however about 3-4 weeks in I blew another bulb same as the first where the fly wire popped.
So now I've seen the same thing with both the new and the old so I can rule out some mistake I could have made when I rebuilt the ballast. I started doing some research on this to see this this was common when over driving the Radium in this way but have yet to see anyone else reporting it. Does anyone know what could be happening here? Could I be getting power surges that might be causing this and is a surge protector something that would even help in this situation?
I realize this could just be a fluke I know about 1 in 20 Radiums can be faulty or fail before they are suppose to and maybe its just back luck. But if I continue to pop bulbs in this way I am going to have to consider going with something else like the Hamilton M135 which I know wont give me the same color or par.
I am running 400W Radiums on Venture son agro S51 ballasts. This is the same as what PFO used to call their 400 HQI ballast.
In fact I had purchased a 7 year old used dual PFO HQI ballast and ran that for a while knowing full well It was at the end of its life cycle and id need to replace the guts of the ballast. I went directly to Venture lighting and bought the identical parts down to part number and specs to rebuild the ballasts and yes they are identical.
Heres my dilemma. About 4 months in running my Radiums for 4 hours a day one of them blew the fly wire on the bulb. I didnt think too much of it but decided to go ahead and replace the guts of the ballast at that time sinse that particular one seemed to drive the bulb at a different color anyway.
I rebuilt the ballasts and fired them up on brand new bulbs and was pleased to see nice even color between the two, however about 3-4 weeks in I blew another bulb same as the first where the fly wire popped.
So now I've seen the same thing with both the new and the old so I can rule out some mistake I could have made when I rebuilt the ballast. I started doing some research on this to see this this was common when over driving the Radium in this way but have yet to see anyone else reporting it. Does anyone know what could be happening here? Could I be getting power surges that might be causing this and is a surge protector something that would even help in this situation?
I realize this could just be a fluke I know about 1 in 20 Radiums can be faulty or fail before they are suppose to and maybe its just back luck. But if I continue to pop bulbs in this way I am going to have to consider going with something else like the Hamilton M135 which I know wont give me the same color or par.
kalgra
New member
Yep I'll get some posted today. This is my fear that I'm getting a surge or something that is exceeding the current during startup and popping the wire like a fuse.
I did not see it happen either time but the second time it happened on the new ballast. I noticed it right after the lights came on so that would indicated it happened at startup or just after.
kalgra
New member
And Here are some pics.
The first bulb is the one that failed after 4-5 months running 4 hours a day on the old ballast.
The second bulb failed after 3-4 weeks on the new ballast.
And a couple other shots
The thing that seems odd is while I know this bulb is not designed to run on this ballast and will have a much shortened life span I have not seen anywhere anyone else reporting this problem with this bulb ballast combo, or any ballast really. The power where I live is somewhat prone to intermittent power outages and surges. I'm just wondering if it could be something like that or if for some reason these ballasts are not igniting the bulb properly. Its gonna be a real bummer if I continue popping new bulb at $80 a pop.
I have not seen what the 400 Radium looks like on an M135 ballast. My understanding is it will be bluer with about 30% less par. Anyone here running the M135 that can post some numbers?
The first bulb is the one that failed after 4-5 months running 4 hours a day on the old ballast.
The second bulb failed after 3-4 weeks on the new ballast.
And a couple other shots
The thing that seems odd is while I know this bulb is not designed to run on this ballast and will have a much shortened life span I have not seen anywhere anyone else reporting this problem with this bulb ballast combo, or any ballast really. The power where I live is somewhat prone to intermittent power outages and surges. I'm just wondering if it could be something like that or if for some reason these ballasts are not igniting the bulb properly. Its gonna be a real bummer if I continue popping new bulb at $80 a pop.
I have not seen what the 400 Radium looks like on an M135 ballast. My understanding is it will be bluer with about 30% less par. Anyone here running the M135 that can post some numbers?
PaulErik
Premium Member
It does clearly appear the ballast exceeded the lamps rated operating current. During lamp warm up all ballasts provide approximately 1.5 times the nominal lamp operating current. With the son agro ballast the current will be higher than the lamp is designed to handle. This can sometimes be seen when the lamp is first fired. The long wire lead / fly wire may glow from excessive current. The lamp current decreases until the lamp is fully warmed up. This is why I asked if you knew when the lamp failed. During normal operation the current is lower and should not exceed the lamps current rating, even when using that ballast.
The input voltage will influence the lamp current with magnetic ballasts. Typically autotransformer CW type ballasts can tolerate a 10% difference in input voltage without going too far out of spec. If your input voltage (from your outlet) isn’t too high this should not be an issue. If your input voltage drops too low the ballast will not be able to support the lamp. The arc will just extinguish and the lamp will restart. This could potentially be a problem. The lamp will cool down slightly before starting up again. If the lamp is still hot the wire will handle even less current.
Another problem could be the capacitor on the ballast. If the capacitor is operating out of spec or another capacitor with a different rating is used, the lamp current will change. If you replaced the ballast and capacitor this should not be an issue.
This was not an issue when that ballast and lamp combination was popular. Radium changed the internal construction of the lamp a few years ago. The 400 watt lamp now has a longer thin wire and the arc tube was shortened. This change could theoretically cause problems when overdriving this lamp. Positioning the lamp so the long wire is at the bottom of the lamp may help.
The M135/M155 ballast is the recommended ballast but the lamp will be dimmer and bluer. The PAR output will be approximately 35% less and the light will appear more monochromatic blue. When the Radium 20,000K lamps are operated on the recommended ballasts the 400 watt lamp is the bluest of the lamps (150W and 250W).
The input voltage will influence the lamp current with magnetic ballasts. Typically autotransformer CW type ballasts can tolerate a 10% difference in input voltage without going too far out of spec. If your input voltage (from your outlet) isn’t too high this should not be an issue. If your input voltage drops too low the ballast will not be able to support the lamp. The arc will just extinguish and the lamp will restart. This could potentially be a problem. The lamp will cool down slightly before starting up again. If the lamp is still hot the wire will handle even less current.
Another problem could be the capacitor on the ballast. If the capacitor is operating out of spec or another capacitor with a different rating is used, the lamp current will change. If you replaced the ballast and capacitor this should not be an issue.
This was not an issue when that ballast and lamp combination was popular. Radium changed the internal construction of the lamp a few years ago. The 400 watt lamp now has a longer thin wire and the arc tube was shortened. This change could theoretically cause problems when overdriving this lamp. Positioning the lamp so the long wire is at the bottom of the lamp may help.
The M135/M155 ballast is the recommended ballast but the lamp will be dimmer and bluer. The PAR output will be approximately 35% less and the light will appear more monochromatic blue. When the Radium 20,000K lamps are operated on the recommended ballasts the 400 watt lamp is the bluest of the lamps (150W and 250W).
kalgra
New member
Thanks this is all great information!
I did replace the caps and igniters with the same as before so That should not be the issue. Here are some pics of the old and new components. The really bummer part is I bought six more of these ballasts from Venture because they will only make them to order. I figured Id be set for life having access to the old school PFO HQI ballast. It never crossed my mind that Radium could have changed something since PFO went out of business.
Perhaps it is the new lamp design. That sucks for me. :fun2:
I index the bulbs with the little nipple up so that puts the wire right at the bottom of the bulb.
So assuming this continues to be an issue and I am forced to go another route, what is the best Radium ballast combo? In this case if I go M135/155 with a 35% par reduction dosnt that put me in the same ballpark as a 250w Radium running on an M80 ballast?
I dont like the super blue look so it sounds like if I want to stick with Radium my next best option is the 250w/M80 no?
kalgra
New member
Perhaps this is a dumb idea but what if set up the light to come on for say 5-10 seconds before shutting off again then have them fire again? Would this in theory heat the wire a bit more slowly and help the lamp through the start up or just cause other problems. Since I have never seem one pop I don't know if its the moment the lamp tries to fire or several seconds into it.
shifty51008
12-5 Chiefs record
I would give the hamilton 20k bulbs a try, lots of people say they have close to the same look as the radium's. I will be trying them out next but i use icecap ballasts.
kalgra
New member
That's a good idea! I actually tried to call Hamilton about this very thing yesterday. The person I spoke to seemed very scripted and wouldn't offer any advice other than stating that my ballast was not spec for their bulb which of course I realize. I might just have to try one.
Although Snit Hamilton a US spec bulb? If so I'm kind of thinking over driving that bulb might not have the desired effect.
PaulErik
Premium Member
The high lamp current occurs during the lamp warm up phase after the lamp has been ignited. Unfortunately nothing can be done about that.
With the recommended M135/M155 ballast the Radium 400-watt lamp is only a tad brighter (approximately 10% more PAR output) than the 250-watt Radium. The reason is the 400-watt lamp is only rated at 360-watts and the 250-watt lamp is rated at 270-watts. The Radium 250-watt lamp with the recommended M80 ballast will appear slightly whiter as well.
The Hamilton 20,000K lamp will be overdriven as well and may not be able to with stand the high ignition voltage provided by the son agro ballast. The Hamilton lamp is designed for M59 ballasts. The Hamilton and Radium lamps have very different electrical requirements. The only lamps I would recommend for the son agro / HQI ballast is the Ushio (none CWA version) or Giesemann lamps. These lamps are designed for the higher lamp current and high ignition voltage.
With the recommended M135/M155 ballast the Radium 400-watt lamp is only a tad brighter (approximately 10% more PAR output) than the 250-watt Radium. The reason is the 400-watt lamp is only rated at 360-watts and the 250-watt lamp is rated at 270-watts. The Radium 250-watt lamp with the recommended M80 ballast will appear slightly whiter as well.
The Hamilton 20,000K lamp will be overdriven as well and may not be able to with stand the high ignition voltage provided by the son agro ballast. The Hamilton lamp is designed for M59 ballasts. The Hamilton and Radium lamps have very different electrical requirements. The only lamps I would recommend for the son agro / HQI ballast is the Ushio (none CWA version) or Giesemann lamps. These lamps are designed for the higher lamp current and high ignition voltage.
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