MarineGirl411
New member
I was told to write my experience in the vendors feedback forum. I have to tell you that I do not want to because of the names I am being called. I am trying to help other people here.
"RARE"?? Yellow Hammer questions?
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Amoore311
New member
If you do not receive your refund I would ask for the thread to be re-opened, and include everything you've typed here. Don't let what other people think of you affect you that much, in the end.... their opinion really means absolutely nothing. Opinions are like as.......well you know the rest I'm sure.
Going by the thread in their forum.... I would have sided with them.
Reading this here..... I'm leaning on siding with you.
Judging by the fact 1/4 of the coral is dead.... I'd say he owes you at least another $25.
If the vendor in question does in fact use questionable photography methods (ie taking pictures or corals RIGHT as they come out of the bag)..... yes you deserve a full refund. Unfortunately, that's impossible to prove. Big coral vendors are ruthless people business wise, so it wouldn't surprise me that one of them would tell you Extreme is being shady.
Going by the thread in their forum.... I would have sided with them.
Reading this here..... I'm leaning on siding with you.
Judging by the fact 1/4 of the coral is dead.... I'd say he owes you at least another $25.
If the vendor in question does in fact use questionable photography methods (ie taking pictures or corals RIGHT as they come out of the bag)..... yes you deserve a full refund. Unfortunately, that's impossible to prove. Big coral vendors are ruthless people business wise, so it wouldn't surprise me that one of them would tell you Extreme is being shady.
goldenseal
New member
This is what I cant wrap my mind around in the aquarium livestock industry. That is seems to be widely accepted that vendors manipulate their advertising photos and people are OK with it???? Im open to seeing ads from a vendor that doesnt. feel free to pm them to me.
Its blamed on everything from lighting, light quality, light bulb age, you name it, ive been attacked by a vendor when questioning his ethics, treated the same or worse as this girl was.
that said,
why do people tolerate this? If I put one of my horses up for sale on equine.com ( which I do and sell animals all over the country) and I advertised it as golden palomino, and it got off the trailer and was the color of dirty dishwater, or sorrel, I would be hauled in to court, and be expected to pay to take the horse back, refund the money plus the shipping. thats just the way fraud works. and YES, im saying, if you photoshop your advertising photos that is fraudulent.
I expect, authentic, true color advertising photos, and then I will make the decision whether I purchase or not. dont doctor it up and send me some crap and tell me my lighting isnt good enough.
Its blamed on everything from lighting, light quality, light bulb age, you name it, ive been attacked by a vendor when questioning his ethics, treated the same or worse as this girl was.
that said,
why do people tolerate this? If I put one of my horses up for sale on equine.com ( which I do and sell animals all over the country) and I advertised it as golden palomino, and it got off the trailer and was the color of dirty dishwater, or sorrel, I would be hauled in to court, and be expected to pay to take the horse back, refund the money plus the shipping. thats just the way fraud works. and YES, im saying, if you photoshop your advertising photos that is fraudulent.
I expect, authentic, true color advertising photos, and then I will make the decision whether I purchase or not. dont doctor it up and send me some crap and tell me my lighting isnt good enough.
Amoore311
New member
Many of the Top E-tailers don't doctor their photos at all.
I've dealt with DrsFoster and Smith( both LA and Diver's Den), Cherry Corals, Pacific East Aquacultre (Dr. Macs), and Blue Zoo Aquatics. I've easily spent over $1,000 at each of those vendors over the years.... so I would call that extensive experience.
Every single coral or fish I've gotten from them has been as advertised.
Lighting and Light Quantity are a completely legitimate reason for a color to look different in 2 different tanks.
If you questioned my ethics, and I was indeed doing everything by the book..... I'd attack you as well.
I'm not saying that is the case here, it seems to be a bit more than simple lighting variation. It's impossible to prove though.... no one knows except for the guy who took the photos.
The only thing we can do as hobbyists..... is deal with vendors we feel are reputable. If they turn out not to be..... voice your opinions on the board, as the OP is doing.
I've dealt with DrsFoster and Smith( both LA and Diver's Den), Cherry Corals, Pacific East Aquacultre (Dr. Macs), and Blue Zoo Aquatics. I've easily spent over $1,000 at each of those vendors over the years.... so I would call that extensive experience.
Every single coral or fish I've gotten from them has been as advertised.
Lighting and Light Quantity are a completely legitimate reason for a color to look different in 2 different tanks.
If you questioned my ethics, and I was indeed doing everything by the book..... I'd attack you as well.
I'm not saying that is the case here, it seems to be a bit more than simple lighting variation. It's impossible to prove though.... no one knows except for the guy who took the photos.
The only thing we can do as hobbyists..... is deal with vendors we feel are reputable. If they turn out not to be..... voice your opinions on the board, as the OP is doing.
goldenseal
New member
Ive been ordering online about 5 yrs, unlike you, I dont keep a running total, but there isnt a LFS within 2 hrs of me, so often I order online and have it delivered.
Pacific east aquaculture is the ONLY one Ive seen that offers 2 types of pics under different lighting, I feel this is the most honest way to represent a piece. I can tell you one of the vendors you mentioned is very questionable in what happens to the photo once it is taken. You can also input that photo in to an exif viewer and see some of what has been changed.
As Im refining my photography skills Ive learned a little more about what goes on and it has gotten easier to spot the enhanced photos which is fine for me but doesnt really help anyone else when they open the bag and are in for a surprise.
Ive also learned about how long it takes for a piece to get looking decent after it arrives and color up the way it should, so im not surprised when it doesnt come out of the bag looking magnificent.
Everyone knows lighting makes a difference, you can make a beautiful woman look horrific with improper lighting, Im talking about making a coral look like something it isnt with colors so intense you need goggles to view it in order to make it more saleable.
As I said, if you can go to those sites and find a pics that are accurate and AUTHENTIC to MOST average tanks, NOT taken under heavy actinics, and 20K ushios, Id like to see them.
Most regular folks dont keep their tanks purple all the time. I mean really, when I take pics of my tank, I just walk over, snap the pic, post it., I got a new camera and for the first time was able to adjust white balance and they STILL do not look like these ad photos. they look great, great color etc, I dont see the point of trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes.
Pacific east aquaculture is the ONLY one Ive seen that offers 2 types of pics under different lighting, I feel this is the most honest way to represent a piece. I can tell you one of the vendors you mentioned is very questionable in what happens to the photo once it is taken. You can also input that photo in to an exif viewer and see some of what has been changed.
As Im refining my photography skills Ive learned a little more about what goes on and it has gotten easier to spot the enhanced photos which is fine for me but doesnt really help anyone else when they open the bag and are in for a surprise.
Ive also learned about how long it takes for a piece to get looking decent after it arrives and color up the way it should, so im not surprised when it doesnt come out of the bag looking magnificent.
Everyone knows lighting makes a difference, you can make a beautiful woman look horrific with improper lighting, Im talking about making a coral look like something it isnt with colors so intense you need goggles to view it in order to make it more saleable.
As I said, if you can go to those sites and find a pics that are accurate and AUTHENTIC to MOST average tanks, NOT taken under heavy actinics, and 20K ushios, Id like to see them.
Most regular folks dont keep their tanks purple all the time. I mean really, when I take pics of my tank, I just walk over, snap the pic, post it., I got a new camera and for the first time was able to adjust white balance and they STILL do not look like these ad photos. they look great, great color etc, I dont see the point of trying to pull the wool over anyones eyes.
Amoore311
New member
If the website explicitly states what lighting the coral is under beforehand..... then it is what it is. Corals can be kept alive just find under 20k Ushios. Therefor, the picture taken is accurate (if it's un-doctored).
MY lfs has 2 big coral tanks. 1 with 10k bulbs, 1 with 14k. Guess which tank is always filled with boring looking brownish corals, and is coincidentally always full.
Guess which has nicer looking corals, 50% of which are always marked as "sold".
It isn't "cheating" to take pictures of corals under 20k bulbs with actinics if that's how the store is sustaining their livestock.
If you don't like that fact.... don't order from them. It's far from deceiving the customer. Especially if they explicitly state what lighting they are using before hand.
Protip:
Take a picture of a frag rack full of corals under 20k Bulbs, Swap the Bulb to 10k and Take another shot. Post a for sale thread for each picture....... I think we both know which corals are going to sell first.
MY lfs has 2 big coral tanks. 1 with 10k bulbs, 1 with 14k. Guess which tank is always filled with boring looking brownish corals, and is coincidentally always full.
Guess which has nicer looking corals, 50% of which are always marked as "sold".
It isn't "cheating" to take pictures of corals under 20k bulbs with actinics if that's how the store is sustaining their livestock.
If you don't like that fact.... don't order from them. It's far from deceiving the customer. Especially if they explicitly state what lighting they are using before hand.
Protip:
Take a picture of a frag rack full of corals under 20k Bulbs, Swap the Bulb to 10k and Take another shot. Post a for sale thread for each picture....... I think we both know which corals are going to sell first.
disenchantedone
New member
Hey Marinegirl411. Sorry for your experience. I read your closed thread...and was surprised to find this one. I read VWTanker's input (zooxanthellae possibly dying due to shipping error), and maybe he's got something there. I know that my clam went from yellow with electric green tips at the MAX expo to purple with electric blue tips in my tank. I attribute it to my lighting. The MAX presenter had LED's and I have different combinations of T5's.
Still, that's not excuse for what you went through or how he came across in that thread. I ordered once from them and only two things survive today (Fireburst Orange Eyed zoanthids and Electric Green Plate Coral). IMO, shipping wasn't that bad, but that was also my first experience ordering online. Things definitely could've been shipped better. My Favia brain was too damaged to survive for very long. I assumed from that point that his pictures were selective, taken early, and probably look a lot better under his lighting conditions.
I chalk it up to a life's lesson. I doubt I'll order from them again, though I do like looking at their inventory. Kudos for at least being a decent reefer to give others your review of the company, to let them form their own opinion. And honestly, its not like you'd use your credit to order from them again after this experience, right?
Still, that's not excuse for what you went through or how he came across in that thread. I ordered once from them and only two things survive today (Fireburst Orange Eyed zoanthids and Electric Green Plate Coral). IMO, shipping wasn't that bad, but that was also my first experience ordering online. Things definitely could've been shipped better. My Favia brain was too damaged to survive for very long. I assumed from that point that his pictures were selective, taken early, and probably look a lot better under his lighting conditions.
I chalk it up to a life's lesson. I doubt I'll order from them again, though I do like looking at their inventory. Kudos for at least being a decent reefer to give others your review of the company, to let them form their own opinion. And honestly, its not like you'd use your credit to order from them again after this experience, right?
MarineGirl411
New member
No, I will definitely not order from a company that yells at me again. It was yelling. Yelling is yelling. I don't think anyone would order from someone that yells. Maybe he had a bad day, but even on my worst day I would not do that to a customer.
Even though that coral was taken under 20K bulbs, I am sorry, but I do not believe it would look like that. A very REPUTABLE vendor told me what they do with their photos. My photo was taken with the coral under 14k Pheonix. Not much difference IMO. My LFS has corals under 20k Radiums and the corals I have gotten from him look exactly the same under my lighting.
disenchantedone-thank you for your comment. I believe that the zoo released from shipping when he took the picture. The coral was stressed and that is why it looked like that. If he is a Marine Biologist he should have known that. It does not matter anymore. It is over and done with.
It is not fair, but then again life is not fair.
Even though that coral was taken under 20K bulbs, I am sorry, but I do not believe it would look like that. A very REPUTABLE vendor told me what they do with their photos. My photo was taken with the coral under 14k Pheonix. Not much difference IMO. My LFS has corals under 20k Radiums and the corals I have gotten from him look exactly the same under my lighting.
disenchantedone-thank you for your comment. I believe that the zoo released from shipping when he took the picture. The coral was stressed and that is why it looked like that. If he is a Marine Biologist he should have known that. It does not matter anymore. It is over and done with.
It is not fair, but then again life is not fair.
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