Really Really New

[gjustinj]

Okay, so I've dreamed of having a salt water tank since I was a small kid. Now i'm 37 and I finally decided to make it a reality. I must have read 200 sites, and watched over 200 videos trying to determine what is right and what is wrong. I think I have some idea of what I'm doing now.

I went out and I got myself a 125 Gallon fish tank and stand, it came with a Fluval FX4 (cannister) filter. I understand some people state this will work, and some will say that it will not. The manufacturer says it will work so it's what I'm starting with. Unfortunately band stand does not leave adequate room for any kind of sump setup.

With that said, last thursday I went out and purchased 1100.00 (mix of live rock and dry rock), about 100 lbs I believe. I put them on the glass first and then poured a mixture of live and fish sand around the rocks til about an 1.5 inches of sand create a bed in the tank.

I mixed my salinity so that it's right in the middle of the red area on my salinity tester. It's a plastic one, while testing after filling it up I would bang it off the ground a few times to get rid of the bubbles on the arrows - it seemed to be giving me false readings until I did this.

I poured in 3 cap fulls of water conditioner in once the tank was filled, and a full bottle of 120+ gallon bacteria from my local fish store (a very nice salt water fish specialty store), it's where I bought my rock and sand too - they take special care of their fish, and how they do things.

It's almost been a week and I understand it will take about 1-2 months of cycling the tank before I can actually put anything other than the bacteria in the tank. My ultimate goal is go with coral/reef tank, but right now I only have regular florescent lighting in the tank, and it's my understanding I will have to get LED's for this in the near future. I also understand that corals are hard to keep, but there are a few easier ones and I will most likely focus on those and clown fish to start.

I just purchased at BRS a Reef Octopus Classic 2000 Hang-on-Back Protein Skimmer. I reviewed this thing and it's supposed to the job great, while most are putting it on 75-90 gallon tanks .. I will be putting it on a 125 Gallon tank (it's delivering today). I could not find much in the way of hang on filters, and my tank is not drilled and has no pump - this was my best choice for the price and what would work for me. I believe it should do a decent job. Lets hope I can figure it out without ruining the floors (I hear there are a lot of over flow problems when getting it going).

So I test my salinity daily (I'm not sure if I should be?) while the tank has been cycling, but I have not tested anything else yet as I thought it would be too early (is it?). I assume I would use a regular fish testing kit to get the Nitrites, Nitrates, PH, Alkalinity, etc. What else should I be testing for and when? I definitely want to make sure that when I put anything living in the tank it will be in good hands.

I am really glad I found this website, it looks like a great website.

The name is JJ thx!

 

[nereefpat]

Hey, JJ. Welcome.

A couple things to get the conversation started: I didn't see you mention an RODI unit. You will probably want

 

[nereefpat]

...Sorry. I hit enter apparently.

You will probably want to use RO water, if not RODI. You don't need the conditioner that you mentioned.

To start your cycle, you will need to add a nitrogen source. Pure liquid ammonia, fish food, or a frozen cocktail shrimp all work. Then you need to be testing for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You want to see the ammonia value spike to about 2ppm, then drop to zero. Nitrite will spike and then drop to zero too. This takes about a month, give or take a couple weeks.

 

[gjustinj]

Hey, JJ. Welcome.

A couple things to get the conversation started: I didn't see you mention an RODI unit. You will probably want

Hey nereefpat I don't know much about them It was my understanding that the water conditioning (3 caps) would remove the chlorine and metals in the water. My water is pretty hard here but the salt itself brings that down or so I read

What's involved with setting up an rodi? I only have a sink in my kitchen for this. Is this something that can be installed under it. Any advice on a good one to buy?

 

[gjustinj]

...Sorry. I hit enter apparently.

You will probably want to use RO water, if not RODI. You don't need the conditioner that you mentioned.

To start your cycle, you will need to add a nitrogen source. Pure liquid ammonia, fish food, or a frozen cocktail shrimp all work. Then you need to be testing for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. You want to see the ammonia value spike to about 2ppm, then drop to zero. Nitrite will spike and then drop to zero too. This takes about a month, give or take a couple weeks.

Yes I added pure bacteria to the tank along with live sand and rock to get the cycle started. How do I test for ammonia? I only have nitrite and nitrate on this strip dip test kit. Should I start testing this early or wait a few more weeks before testing? I also heard there is live stock you can add early to help get the cycle started. Do you know if thats true? You mentioned frozen cocktail shrimp how much would you add to a 125? I shouldn't start water changes until it's cycled right?

 

[nereefpat]

It's hard to say what's all in your water without a complete lab analysis. It could have algae fuels like nitrates or phosphates. Or it could have toxins like copper for example. In general, you want to use RODI water with 0 total dissolved solids in it. Salt mixes are made to be mixed with 0 TDS water.

You can easily mount a unit under a sink in the kitchen. I did this for years when I rented places. I got a 5 stage unit from air water ice. It cost about 150$, and it has served me well. Some filters in it need to be replaced periodically, so add an additional 50$ a year or so.

 

[nereefpat]

Yes I added pure bacteria to the tank along with live sand and rock to get the cycle started. How do I test for ammonia? I only have nitrite and nitrate on this strip dip test kit. Should I start testing this early or wait a few more weeks before testing? I also heard there is live stock you can add early to help get the cycle started. Do you know if thats true? You mentioned frozen cocktail shrimp how much would you add to a 125? I shouldn't start water changes until it's cycled right?

The bacteria will help speed up the cycle, but it needs a nitrogen source. Cycling is a process where you build up enough bacteria to handle your fishes' waste. So you need to feed the tank somehow to feed the bacteria. I don't know how much shrimp you need. Just put a couple in, test for ammonia, then pull shrimp out when ammonia level reaches 2.0ppm or so.

I would get an ammonia test kit using a color comparison system, not the test strips. It is inhumane, in my opinion, to use livestock to cycle a tank. I would not do it this way, for this an other reasons.

 

[Shamous113]

I mixed my salinity so that it's right in the middle of the red area on my salinity tester. It's a plastic one, while testing after filling it up I would bang it off the ground a few times to get rid of the bubbles on the arrows - it seemed to be giving me false readings until I did this.

Welcome to the salty side, IMHO through that salinity tester in the garbage (they aren't accurate enough) and get your self a good refractometer or one of the Milwaukee MA887 Digital Refractometer's.

 

[gjustinj]

The bacteria will help speed up the cycle, but it needs a nitrogen source. Cycling is a process where you build up enough bacteria to handle your fishes' waste. So you need to feed the tank somehow to feed the bacteria. I don't know how much shrimp you need. Just put a couple in, test for ammonia, then pull shrimp out when ammonia level reaches 2.0ppm or so.

I would get an ammonia test kit using a color comparison system, not the test strips. It is inhumane, in my opinion, to use livestock to cycle a tank. I would not do it this way, for this an other reasons.

Is this the test kit I should purchase?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/red-sea-ammonia-test-kit.html


Rodi kit?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-4-stage-value-ro-di-system-75gpd-2.html

& Frozen Shrimp (a few pieces)?

 

[sde1500]

Hey nereefpat I don't know much about them It was my understanding that the water conditioning (3 caps) would remove the chlorine and metals in the water. My water is pretty hard here but the salt itself brings that down or so I read

What's involved with setting up an rodi? I only have a sink in my kitchen for this. Is this something that can be installed under it. Any advice on a good one to buy?

I'd say that was wrong. You need RODI. You want to strictly control EVERYTHING in the water that enters the tank. what was a low low level mineral or chemical in the water can build up over time, killing the tank. You want pure RODI water, then add the salt to it. Hygrometer is fine to measure salinity, just know what it tends to deviate to. They are consistent, not accurate. So get your LFS to test water, then you test it with the hygrometer, note the difference. If they say the water is 1.025 and you test it 1.03. Then you know you test .005 high, it will always test that.

As for the cycle. The only way to know it started is to test ammonia. Its not some set time frame like "in 6 weeks your cycle is done'. Without tests, you won't know.

 

[gjustinj]

Welcome to the salty side, IMHO through that salinity tester in the garbage (they aren't accurate enough) and get your self a good refractometer or one of the Milwaukee MA887 Digital Refractometer's.

Thanks! I have looked into these, but I friend of mine who has beautiful salt water reefs and fish only tanks said that the plastic tester will not be off enough for it to be a problem, and to not waste my money on a refractometer (almost purchased one last week and he stopped me).

I will pick up an ammonia test kit for sure! I can grab a bag of frozen shrimp too. I really appreciate your input!

 

[gjustinj]

I'd say that was wrong. You need RODI. You want to strictly control EVERYTHING in the water that enters the tank. what was a low low level mineral or chemical in the water can build up over time, killing the tank. You want pure RODI water, then add the salt to it. Hygrometer is fine to measure salinity, just know what it tends to deviate to. They are consistent, not accurate. So get your LFS to test water, then you test it with the hygrometer, note the difference. If they say the water is 1.025 and you test it 1.03. Then you know you test .005 high, it will always test that.

As for the cycle. The only way to know it started is to test ammonia. Its not some set time frame like "in 6 weeks your cycle is done'. Without tests, you won't know.

something like this?
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/brs-4-stage-value-ro-di-system-75gpd-2.html

 

[TokiHacker]

Thanks! I have looked into these, but I friend of mine who has beautiful salt water reefs and fish only tanks said that the plastic tester will not be off enough for it to be a problem, and to not waste my money on a refractometer (almost purchased one last week and he stopped me).

I will pick up an ammonia test kit for sure! I can grab a bag of frozen shrimp too. I really appreciate your input!

I really insist you to get a refractometer. They really aren't that expensive.

 

[Shamous113]

Thanks! I have looked into these, but I friend of mine who has beautiful salt water reefs and fish only tanks said that the plastic tester will not be off enough for it to be a problem, and to not waste my money on a refractometer (almost purchased one last week and he stopped me).

I will pick up an ammonia test kit for sure! I can grab a bag of frozen shrimp too. I really appreciate your input!

Spend the $ on one it will save you heartache in the future. here is a in depth paper on the effects that small variations salinity have on coral health http://www.int-res.com/articles/meps/181/m181p309.pdf

 

[crawlerman]

I have a refractometer and hygrometer. My tank and test fluid both test out at 1.026, so I know my water is 1.026/35ppt. My hygrometer reads 1.024 and is very consistent as long as you knock the bubbles off. I rarely use my refractometer.

One problem that I see (if I am reading this right) is you added tap water to straight into your live sand and live rock. Then mixed the salt in the tank. then after you added conditioner. I would say that any life that was on the live rock and sand was killed when you added the tap water and mixed the salt. Get some sand or a piece of live rock from an established aquarium and start your cycle the right way. There may be enough alive with the added bottled bacteria, but rock/sand from established tank will help.

Your aquarium very well could be cycling already and you won't know because you are not testing. Go get a cheap API starter test kit. You want to test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate daily to follow the cycle. Instead of messing with rotten shrimp I would just use pure ammonia to get it up to 2ppm. From there keep testing until nitrites and ammonia no longer register. To confirm you can add ammonia again and see how fast your system cycles it to nitrates. Once that cycle is done you can start doing water changes to get nitrates down and add your clown fish. Clowns are a good first fish. They are pretty hardy and everyone knows and loves Nemo. Read through all of the stickies above. Ask questions before you do anything and don't trust your LFS. You could have bought nice dry rock for 1/4 the price and live rock for half online. Once cured and seeded the dry rock is live rock.

Good luck and ask plenty of questions. I know from experience that you will soon regret not having a drilled tank with a sump. But you can definitely get by with it. 125 is a good size tank, not too big and not too small. Enjoy!

 

[SALTYwaterDOG]

There are many places you could get RO water to get you started. if purchasing a rodi unit isn't in your budget right now. at least you could get things rolling. It costs about a dollar per five gallons. Hauling water isn't fun but would be worth it IMO
Good luck and HAPPY REEFING. :fish1:

 

[kevin21]

Refractometer is a must. Also, you do not need to test SG every day. Once your levels are set, you need to make sure you top off your water with fresh water in order to account for evaporation. Auto-top off systems are extremely beneficial to having a successful tank, especially if you plan on having coral in the future. I would say to look into getting these asap,

Refractometer
Auto-top off
Use only RODI water-dont need to buy a unit, can probably pick up water weekly from LFS
Ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, phosphate, alkalinity, magnesium, and calcium test kits. I use Salifert.

Test the water during the cycle every couple of days. Once you see a spike in ammonia and nitrite, you wait until those go down and nitrate rises. Once that rises, you can do a nice 20% water change and you should be good to add a few members of a clean up crew. If all goes well there, you can add the rest of your clean up crew. After that is successful (hopefully), you can look to add your clown pair.

Good luck. A lot of good advice from people on here, use it, learn it, and have fun!

 

[gjustinj]

One problem that I see (if I am reading this right) is you added tap water to straight into your live sand and live rock. Then mixed the salt in the tank. then after you added conditioner. I would say that any life that was on the live rock and sand was killed when you added the tap water and mixed the salt. Get some sand or a piece of live rock from an established aquarium and start your cycle the right way. There may be enough alive with the added bottled bacteria, but rock/sand from established tank will help.

Your aquarium very well could be cycling already and you won't know because you are not testing. Go get a cheap API starter test kit. You want to test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate daily to follow the cycle. Instead of messing with rotten shrimp I would just use pure ammonia to get it up to 2ppm. From there keep testing until nitrites and ammonia no longer register. To confirm you can add ammonia again and see how fast your system cycles it to nitrates. Once that cycle is done you can start doing water changes to get nitrates down and add your clown fish. Clowns are a good first fish. They are pretty hardy and everyone knows and loves Nemo. Read through all of the stickies above. Ask questions before you do anything and don't trust your LFS. You could have bought nice dry rock for 1/4 the price and live rock for half online. Once cured and seeded the dry rock is live rock.

Good luck and ask plenty of questions. I know from experience that you will soon regret not having a drilled tank with a sump. But you can definitely get by with it. 125 is a good size tank, not too big and not too small. Enjoy!

Hey there Crawlerman, almost right. I mixed the salt and water in buckets measuring at a slightly lower salinity (added more salinity later). I also added a heater into the tank a few days later, and then a day later another heater (it's now 78 degrees). Do you believe I should still go get a piece of new live rock from the fish store? I did use ammonia/bacteria (120 gallon bottle) direct from the fish store that was being kept in a refrigerator. Is that good?

I can go grab an ammonia test kit, and another piece of live rock if necessary from the fish store - np. I wanted a sump and drilled tank, but it's not gonna work with my setup - my stand is all open except for one small door in the middle where i have my canister.

 

[sde1500]

No need for new rock, just ammonia tests.

 

[gjustinj]

No need for new rock, just ammonia tests.

Thanks! I will pick up an ammonia test kit and start testing. Once I see it spike, a few days later I should see Nitrite and Nitrate spike?