Rebuild and recovery of a dead tank
- Thread starter jason2459
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jason2459
Well-known member
Here I tried getting better picture with all the lights on. Phone camera still picks up on the blues a lot.
Also I now have 6 heads. This is new I didn't see before. Looks like one of the biggest heads is creating a new one. There's strands going over to the right creating a new baby.
Also I now have 6 heads. This is new I didn't see before. Looks like one of the biggest heads is creating a new one. There's strands going over to the right creating a new baby.
jason2459
Well-known member
Posted this in another thread but like to document here.
Cleaned out the skimmer cup. Very happy with this new skimmer so far.
Who doesn't like pictures of poop and calcium
Then I finally got around to hooking up my ozone generator to the skimmer. Just a T and some tubing. One into the collection cup to draw any ozone not used up back into the skimmer and duct tape of the other holes. This also is a way to reduce over flows. Then the other tubing to the ozone generator.
Cleaned out the skimmer cup. Very happy with this new skimmer so far.
Who doesn't like pictures of poop and calcium
Then I finally got around to hooking up my ozone generator to the skimmer. Just a T and some tubing. One into the collection cup to draw any ozone not used up back into the skimmer and duct tape of the other holes. This also is a way to reduce over flows. Then the other tubing to the ozone generator.
jason2459
Well-known member
Just some observations.
Still loads of GHA that's brown and dieing and everyday seeing a little more rock. But also seeing more cyano. This will eventually go away too. Been through this before so not worried. Just sitting and watching the pretty flowing algae. I like the coverage on my overflow box and wish it would stay.
My mandarin is gaining some weight back it looks like. He got super skinny after the major invert die off and I'm sure impacted the pod population greatly as well. The RUGF should be helping to bring them back up.
Still loads of GHA that's brown and dieing and everyday seeing a little more rock. But also seeing more cyano. This will eventually go away too. Been through this before so not worried. Just sitting and watching the pretty flowing algae. I like the coverage on my overflow box and wish it would stay.
My mandarin is gaining some weight back it looks like. He got super skinny after the major invert die off and I'm sure impacted the pod population greatly as well. The RUGF should be helping to bring them back up.
jason2459
Well-known member
Got some picture of the worse parts of my tank. Some reason I like to take them and log it here. Did this before with my previous two massive algae outbreaks. Who likes to look at pristine reef tanks all the time....
Not the worse spot but liked the picture. With the camera really picking up the blue LEDs and the blue background makes the blue tang look like a ghost.
The overflow where I'd like the algae to stay but you can see its receding.
Its also going away more rapidly on the right side of the tank faster as seen here.
Here's the middle and where the cyano has sprouted up the most but it'd looking kind of faded bow too.
And here's the left side. The worse area but still a ton better the. It was a few weeks ago.
Basically if history repeats itself from my experience so far its all on its way out. I didn't even pull any of it this time. Before I'd do a little pulling here and there just to extract some of the nutrients they consumed but I just have sat back and watched this time around.
I did a lot of water changes way early on but that was right after the disaster and I really don't know if that helped but I doubt it. I did run carbon and gfo for a while and that probably did help. As soon as my PO4 were back under .1 I took both offline and depending on the vinegar dosing to keep lowering slightly and maintain the nitrates and phosphates. I haven't checked the levels recently at all and as long as the algae keeps fading away I probably won't worry about it.
Again, just from my experience before once I got the PO4 down to reasonable levels from off the charts levels the vinegar dosing brought them down a little more and maintained them there. Also I knew this would take a few months to clear up and just enjoy the wavy patches. I do prefer it when its a nice green instead of this poop brown its turned into as it melts away. It'd not very long at all either anymore so doesn't wave around as much either.
After I get that foxface in there its possible he'll clear the rest out quickly but may not touch it either. Find out after QT is done. My tangs have stuck their noses up to it and won't touch the stuff. My magnificent foxface was great at eating everything. Man I miss him. He was the biggest and fastest fish I had.
Not the worse spot but liked the picture. With the camera really picking up the blue LEDs and the blue background makes the blue tang look like a ghost.
The overflow where I'd like the algae to stay but you can see its receding.
Its also going away more rapidly on the right side of the tank faster as seen here.
Here's the middle and where the cyano has sprouted up the most but it'd looking kind of faded bow too.
And here's the left side. The worse area but still a ton better the. It was a few weeks ago.
Basically if history repeats itself from my experience so far its all on its way out. I didn't even pull any of it this time. Before I'd do a little pulling here and there just to extract some of the nutrients they consumed but I just have sat back and watched this time around.
I did a lot of water changes way early on but that was right after the disaster and I really don't know if that helped but I doubt it. I did run carbon and gfo for a while and that probably did help. As soon as my PO4 were back under .1 I took both offline and depending on the vinegar dosing to keep lowering slightly and maintain the nitrates and phosphates. I haven't checked the levels recently at all and as long as the algae keeps fading away I probably won't worry about it.
Again, just from my experience before once I got the PO4 down to reasonable levels from off the charts levels the vinegar dosing brought them down a little more and maintained them there. Also I knew this would take a few months to clear up and just enjoy the wavy patches. I do prefer it when its a nice green instead of this poop brown its turned into as it melts away. It'd not very long at all either anymore so doesn't wave around as much either.
After I get that foxface in there its possible he'll clear the rest out quickly but may not touch it either. Find out after QT is done. My tangs have stuck their noses up to it and won't touch the stuff. My magnificent foxface was great at eating everything. Man I miss him. He was the biggest and fastest fish I had.
jason2459
Well-known member
And another thought to add to above about the algae. It may be going away quicker this time and with out any pulling because its a different reason why it sprouted this time then the previous two times.
I believe both previous times for the massive outbreak I had where caused by the same thing. With the 55g when I first set it up I used the old rock I had but added a lot more with pukani dry rock. Big outbreak then with patience and some pulling it went away. Then when I upgraded to my 180 I brought over that rock but of course it wasn't enough so I added a bunch more pukani dry rock. Again, huge massive outbreak.
This was before it became common knowledge that pukani dry rock though looks amazing leaches phosphates like there's no tomorrow. So now people treat them with acids or treat with lanthanum chloride until the leaching stops before adding it to their tanks. Would have been good to know but it was good experience I guess on how not to freak out and have patience which is absolutely necessary in this hobby.
So, this time around it wasn't at all due to leaching phosphates but just a massive die off. So quick spike and quicker then last time to get parameters normalized and stable.
I believe both previous times for the massive outbreak I had where caused by the same thing. With the 55g when I first set it up I used the old rock I had but added a lot more with pukani dry rock. Big outbreak then with patience and some pulling it went away. Then when I upgraded to my 180 I brought over that rock but of course it wasn't enough so I added a bunch more pukani dry rock. Again, huge massive outbreak.
This was before it became common knowledge that pukani dry rock though looks amazing leaches phosphates like there's no tomorrow. So now people treat them with acids or treat with lanthanum chloride until the leaching stops before adding it to their tanks. Would have been good to know but it was good experience I guess on how not to freak out and have patience which is absolutely necessary in this hobby.
So, this time around it wasn't at all due to leaching phosphates but just a massive die off. So quick spike and quicker then last time to get parameters normalized and stable.
jason2459
Well-known member
SOB, so a couple of my fish needed a breathmint evidently after they ate.
I fed my fish and waited a while for them to finish eating. Then I added in 4 peppermint shrimp and some turbo snails. My reef safe would never touch an invert red velvet fairy wrasse swam right up to one and ate one. Then my Kaudern's cardinal slowly came up to one and then quickly snatched another one up. Then the next thing you know my red velvet snatched up another while the cardinal was just floating around with antennae sticking out of his mouth. So much for reefsafe. I need to teach these fish how to read.
I fed my fish and waited a while for them to finish eating. Then I added in 4 peppermint shrimp and some turbo snails. My reef safe would never touch an invert red velvet fairy wrasse swam right up to one and ate one. Then my Kaudern's cardinal slowly came up to one and then quickly snatched another one up. Then the next thing you know my red velvet snatched up another while the cardinal was just floating around with antennae sticking out of his mouth. So much for reefsafe. I need to teach these fish how to read.
Spiderman097
Member
Welcome Back! I hope things go well for you this time!
jason2459
Well-known member
Thanks! Things were going great with the tank the past couple years after getting through the dry rock leaching PO4 and up until a few months ago with basement wall cleaning killing off the majority of my inverts and a few fish.
Rebuild time and have several things staged to get into the tank. Clean up crew first and a few corals, couple fish behind that and then the bubble tip anemones. Still looking at what next after that. I'm sure not having good luck though getting my shrimp back. I don't blame my fish for finding them appetizing. I wouldn't mind have a few peel and eat shrimp too.
muttley000
MTS Sufferer!
How big across is it? Hard to judge by the pic.
jason2459
Well-known member
I'd say about 3" and there's more then 15 heads on it.
Edit: sorry that's the Duncan.
The biggest mushroom is maybe 2.5" right now.
jason2459
Well-known member
Zoa's really haven't changed at all. Still tiny and not looking great. Will keep watching for any changes.
I added a third DI stage to my RO/DI. So, I now have upgraded my 75gpd 5 stage plus BRS unit yet again.
Stages
1. 1 micron Sediment
2. 5 micron Carbon
3. .5 micron Carbon
4. Dual 150gpd Membrane piggy backed
5. 1st DI stage which has the oldest DI resin
6. 2nd DI stage which has the 2nd oldest DI resin
7. 3rd DI stage which has the newest DI resin
Stage 4 details
Basically this cuts down on waste water having the dual membranes with a single membrane flow restrictor. So, basically it's still flushing the waste across them in serial at 150gpd but the filtered water coming out of each in parallel. This cuts back on waste water but doubles the output. Win/Win right? So, I theoretically with a good membrane, over 65psi, and right temp will get about 300gpd production with half the water waste.
The downside is it's only flushing the waste water across the membranes at 150gpd rate cutting down the waste water. What this means is that this will most likely reduce the life of the RO membrane. Having soft water will help reduce this reduction. I have water softener supplying my RO/DI unit but can see the reduced life still. RO membranes should be able to last around 3 years. Then end of this year will be the 3rd year mark for these membranes but I'm seeing a drastic decrease in production rate so need to replace the membranes to get back my full production rate almost a year earlier.
DI Stages details
Having a single detectable amount of TDS can mean just about anything. Could mean nothing at all. But IMO if you're running a RO/DI system you should always try and get 0 tds out of the unit. If you register a 1 out of your DI stage it's time to replace the DI resin.
Unfortunately, this is a waste of a lot of life left in the DI resin. So, I added a 2nd DI stage. So, I would take the last stage DI resin cartridge out and swap it into the 1st stage. Then add brand new DI resin into the last stage. Now, I have that 1tds still coming out of the 1st stage and 0 coming out of the last stage. This will also increase the life of the last stage DI resin because even though the RO membrane reduces the TDS a lot (usually anywhere between 96-98%+) the TDS going into the 1st stage DI is still higher than what's coming out of the 1st stage DI so the last stage is having to reduce fewer TDS. This also allows you to use even more of that old DI resin that was still reducing the TDS even though not to 0 but at least to 1. I have no numbers on how much DI is being saved but it's saving some. Some is more than none.
I've found over the past couple years doing this by the time my last stage registers 1 and it's time to swap it to the first stage the first stage was still registering a decent reduction in TDS from the RO membrane meaning that 1st stage old DI resin still have some effective life in it.
TDS reduction example is going into my RO/DI TDS is around 280 and after the RO stage going into the 1st DI stage is around 7-10. Then after that 1st DI stage I was still seeing 2 TDS and my 2nd DI stage just started showing 1. So, I took the last DI stage and put it into the 1st DI stage and dumped the old 1st stage resin. To me that was a waste as it was still able to reduce that post RO stage TDS down to 2.
So, in comes a 3rd stage. I'll be curious what that 1st stage old old DI resin will register by the time the 3rd DI stage registers 1.
I added a third DI stage to my RO/DI. So, I now have upgraded my 75gpd 5 stage plus BRS unit yet again.
Stages
1. 1 micron Sediment
2. 5 micron Carbon
3. .5 micron Carbon
4. Dual 150gpd Membrane piggy backed
5. 1st DI stage which has the oldest DI resin
6. 2nd DI stage which has the 2nd oldest DI resin
7. 3rd DI stage which has the newest DI resin
Stage 4 details
Basically this cuts down on waste water having the dual membranes with a single membrane flow restrictor. So, basically it's still flushing the waste across them in serial at 150gpd but the filtered water coming out of each in parallel. This cuts back on waste water but doubles the output. Win/Win right? So, I theoretically with a good membrane, over 65psi, and right temp will get about 300gpd production with half the water waste.
The downside is it's only flushing the waste water across the membranes at 150gpd rate cutting down the waste water. What this means is that this will most likely reduce the life of the RO membrane. Having soft water will help reduce this reduction. I have water softener supplying my RO/DI unit but can see the reduced life still. RO membranes should be able to last around 3 years. Then end of this year will be the 3rd year mark for these membranes but I'm seeing a drastic decrease in production rate so need to replace the membranes to get back my full production rate almost a year earlier.
DI Stages details
Having a single detectable amount of TDS can mean just about anything. Could mean nothing at all. But IMO if you're running a RO/DI system you should always try and get 0 tds out of the unit. If you register a 1 out of your DI stage it's time to replace the DI resin.
Unfortunately, this is a waste of a lot of life left in the DI resin. So, I added a 2nd DI stage. So, I would take the last stage DI resin cartridge out and swap it into the 1st stage. Then add brand new DI resin into the last stage. Now, I have that 1tds still coming out of the 1st stage and 0 coming out of the last stage. This will also increase the life of the last stage DI resin because even though the RO membrane reduces the TDS a lot (usually anywhere between 96-98%+) the TDS going into the 1st stage DI is still higher than what's coming out of the 1st stage DI so the last stage is having to reduce fewer TDS. This also allows you to use even more of that old DI resin that was still reducing the TDS even though not to 0 but at least to 1. I have no numbers on how much DI is being saved but it's saving some. Some is more than none.
I've found over the past couple years doing this by the time my last stage registers 1 and it's time to swap it to the first stage the first stage was still registering a decent reduction in TDS from the RO membrane meaning that 1st stage old DI resin still have some effective life in it.
TDS reduction example is going into my RO/DI TDS is around 280 and after the RO stage going into the 1st DI stage is around 7-10. Then after that 1st DI stage I was still seeing 2 TDS and my 2nd DI stage just started showing 1. So, I took the last DI stage and put it into the 1st DI stage and dumped the old 1st stage resin. To me that was a waste as it was still able to reduce that post RO stage TDS down to 2.
So, in comes a 3rd stage. I'll be curious what that 1st stage old old DI resin will register by the time the 3rd DI stage registers 1.
muttley000
MTS Sufferer!
Interesting on the Rodi added stages. How are you monitoring all of the TDS readings? Inline guages of some kind would be awesome.
Last edited:
jason2459
Well-known member
Yep inline. The 5 stage plus from BRS came with a pressure gauge and a single dual inline tds meter. I added a second one when I added a 2nd stage DI to get supply line before the unit, after ro into 1st di stage, out of 1st stage and into 2nd stage, and the final out. I don't think I really need another one for the now second stage into 3rd. I'm still mostly interested in the oldest 1st stage and how much it reduces TDS and the last 3rd stage DI and making sure its output is 0.
jason2459
Well-known member
Played target practice with the fish and a couple of Nerf guns with those suction cups on them with my son this evening. It worked out quite well and was fun I think for us and the fish. I didn't know if the fish would be scared or not but every time a dart stuck to the glass several fish would swim up to them to check out what they were. Which gave us even easier targets to hit. They weren't scared one bit.
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