Rebuilding from scratch.

[TropTrea]

On Febuary 23rd I had a fire and my entiire aquarium systems were destroyed. Now I'm in the planning stages of rebuilding everything bavk from scratch. So here are some my present ideas.

1. 120 gallon main display tank.
2. 30 gallon or 40 gallon softie tank under it.
3. 2-48"X16"X12" grow out tanks in the fish room downstairs about 80 gallons total
4. 2-48" X 24"X12" grow out tanks in the fish room downstairs about 120 gallons total.
5. using a 60 gallon vat for a refudgium
6. having a 60 gallon sump and pump feeding the main tank @ 600 gph and then gravity feeding the rest of the system from overflows.
7. For a top off system I'm usining a Kent 30 gpd Si system topping with fresh water only.

Now my questions
1. what would be the best lighting combination?
1= sps,lps,softies-2= softies, 3= lps, 4= sps corals.

2. What would be a good skimmer system for something this large. 480 gallons total in the water column

3. What would be the best water circulation system for this system (powerheads and flow)

4. What would be the best system for monitoring and adding calcium and alkininity.

5. Is there anything I'm missing?

Dennis

note if you want to see my old tank after the fire click on the link.

<http://members.aol.com/troptreaetc/fire.html>

note the old tank a 75 gallon is in the background where the kids toys are. My fish room pictures can be found at

<http://members.aol.com/troptreaetc/repairs.html>

 

[bertoni]

1. What are the tank dimensions? I'd probably go for 3 250 W MH bulbs, but there are cheaper options for lower-light animals.

2. You could look at the ASM and Euro-Reef skimmer lines. Remember that ASM seems to overrate their skimmers.

3. I'd look at a closed loop for the display, since they tend to give a cleaner look, or perhaps some Tunze Streams or Seio pumps.

4. I use test kits and limewater autotopoff. If you're growing a lot of corals, you'll likely want a calcium reactor, though.

 

[Capt. Nemo]

Dennis, what was the cause of the fire?

 

[TropTrea]

Fire was caused by an electrical wire that ran along the top of the basment blocks. There was a heating duct pinching the wire between it and the block. In the 16 years since the house was built the insulation on that wire finaly wore through shortenibg out against the heating duct.

When the firemen got there (my son was the first one to go into the house) the fire had already burnt itself out from lack of ozygen. But as you can see in the pictures the heat and smoke damage was extremly bad.

When I first went into the basement it barely seemed like there was a fire in the house. However in the fish room all the tanks were at least 2 inches low on water and so hot I could barely touch them. The fish room was also the worst part of the basement because the furnace fan in that part of the house ran throughout the fire pumping the smoke into the fish room as well as the heat.

Dennis

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7261870#post7261870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Capt. Nemo
Dennis, what was the cause of the fire?

 

[Randall_James]

Will be a nice spread of tanks, I like MH (shimmer lines) as well as a more "Blue" look of 14-20K light spectrum. I use Blueline 10K and 10K+ combinations to get both the bright light and the "blue" look. They are however not DE HQI but screw in mogul styles. I have seen this combo used on grow outs but visually I still think the 14K's (10K+ with blueline) looks nicer.

1. 120 gallon main display tank.
3 X 175W MH *assuming 18" depth
or
3 X 250W MH 14K's (I like the blue look either way)

2. 30 gallon or 40 gallon softie tank under it.
1 X 96W CF

3. 2-48"X16"X12" grow out tanks in the fish room downstairs about 80 gallons total
4 X 150W MH (2 per tank)

4. 2-48" X 24"X12" grow out tanks in the fish room downstairs about 120 gallons total.
4 X 150W MH

I have 6 X 250 HQI's on a 48" wide (72" long 12" deep) and they provide more than ample lighting for SPS in the shallow tank. I am pretty certain I could use 150's

5. using a 60 gallon vat for a refudgium
2 X 95W CF floodlights (outdoor flood replacments)

Circulation I would keep in 3 segments with a minimum 2 pumps per system (redundancy is always nice).
You could combine all into a single point for skimming and water changes but then the risk of something happening to one tank could happen to all. The pump selection will need to be played out against head heights, noise issues (if any) and specific tank stock.
I would use 2 skimmers rather than 1 large as well. Seems that alternating service days on the skimmers provides a more consistant skimming rate. (the LFS I use has this setup and seems to work very well)

 

[TropTrea]

1. the 120 gallon will be 48" X 24" X 24" , the 40 gqallon will be 36" X 18" X 16".

2. I believe most skimmers are overrated. In my old system I only had 105 gallons in the water column and was using a precision marine rated for a 75 gallon. I had no complaints about it and it seemed to do a good job. But I also had a refudum of 30 gallons to suport my 75 gallon tank. The refudum might have actually made the skimmer unneeded.

3. In seriously considering a pair of streams with a controler. I like the idea of being able to have a pulsed blast for several seconds, every 5 or 10 minutes.

4. I have thought about a calc reactor as well as a Kalk drip system. Only thing is I'm not sure the advantages of one over the other. Does a Calk reactor also add alkininity? and in the correct ration?

Dennis

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7261507#post7261507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by bertoni
1. What are the tank dimensions? I'd probably go for 3 250 W MH bulbs, but there are cheaper options for lower-light animals.

2. You could look at the ASM and Euro-Reef skimmer lines. Remember that ASM seems to overrate their skimmers.

3. I'd look at a closed loop for the display, since they tend to give a cleaner look, or perhaps some Tunze Streams or Seio pumps.

4. I use test kits and limewater autotopoff. If you're growing a lot of corals, you'll likely want a calcium reactor, though.

 

[bertoni]

That fire sounds horrible.

1. I guess I'd go for 3-4 250 W MH bulbs for maximum flexibility, but 175 W 15,000K Iwasakis with a good reflector look good to my eyes, and are very efficient. Check Sanjay Joshi's site for MH reflector, ballast, and bulb information, and also Sunlight Supply's forum here.

4. The Nielsen and CO2-driven reactors are like limewater, and add alkalinity and calcium in the correct proportion. Nice feature, IMO.

 

[Randall_James]

Then i would use 250W lights for the 24 deep.

I have pulsed streams and at $325 each + magnets, they are not cheap. There is a new one out that mounts the motor outside the tank (same pricing but the heat will be out of the tank)

 

[TropTrea]

Some thoughts at this point.

It seems most suggestions for the 120 are going with 3-4 250 wall MH's. Well the tank is only 48" long with a ceter brace so the 3 light idea is out. now going with 4 Mh seems like a lot of light to me. on my 75 I had 1-400W14K MH, 1-250W 6.5K MH, and 260 watts of Compact Actinics.

Since I'm looking at max coral growth (I'll be restarting with all frags) my thought was a pair of 400W10K MH's plus some atinic lighting. Then once my frags have grown out considerably switching to 14K bulbs? What is everyones opinion on this idea? And what do you recommend for Actinics?

Looking at the Tunze units I'm prone towards the TS21 kit. This is the dual controler with two 1,875 pumps. That would give me peak flow rate at 4350 or over 36 times my water volumn. I could set the pumps to run normaly at about 600 gph then alternate surging them at max for say 20 secends every minutes.

Yes the Tunze units are expensive. The votrex ones are about the same price and I do not believe they have a controler from them out yet.

Another option might be to run one seko pump and one tunze TS 12 that I could pulse. Less money but less control over the flow as well.

What about T-5 lighting or VHO 's for my shallow grow out tanks? Anyone have good or bad experince on those?

Dennis

 

[Randall_James]

I have a single Tunze pulsed unit in my 48" long tank and is more than adequate with the other units I have (LittleGiant 4X closed loop and Mag9 sump/refuge)

Flow is 1700Gph without the Tunze unit. So add the 1500-3200Gph surge to the 1700. Works like a champ

Aim is pretty important to keep substrate where it belongs. There is a constant change in contour of the substrate but after a week or so it stays pretty stable.

The worst part is the size of the tunze unit in a 48" tank (I aim mine down the length of the tank)

Most 120 range tanks are 72", so it would have needed 3 lights, as you are 48" 2X250W should work just fine, sorry for the bad info.

My 48" (24" deep w/4"substrate) has 2X175W MH Bluelines (10K and 10K+) 2X54W Tru-Actinic T5's and 2X36W 50/50CF's. night time is 20W 420nm ColdCathodes (1hour each side of the day)
I have this all staged to simulate dawn/dusk and am really happy with the look. The 10K and 10K+ give the tank a white look on one side and more blue on the other for an illusion of depth

Growing out tanks for maximum growth will work better at 10K or even further down the spectrum, however when you do this an move them to the 14K spectrum, they will tend to change color pretty dramatically (IME)

I have some Acros that under the 10K go brown and 3 or 4 months under the 14K, they color up nicely. Not sure what that is all about but happens pretty consistently on my setup.

T5's (I had a 254W 30G growout) was another story, It took me some time to get it working and the corals acted as though they had issues with the move from T5 to MH

I am not sure it was worth all the hassle myself. But if you are going to grow them out and display them as well, I would think that keeping the lighting the same (or at least same type) might be easier in the long run.

 

[TropTrea]

So I take it that for a combination of appearance and growth I should probably keep all my MH's @ 14K. PErsonalky I liked the whiter white of my old 14K bulb compared to the yellowish tinge I got off of the 6.5K bulb.

So even with the 24" wide and 24" deep part you don;t think I'll need 400Watt MH's. That sounds good for the pocket book (electric bill).

Then for the grow out tanks downstairs simply running smaller MH units should work. Only thing is the smaller MH units are far from inexpensive. and that is a lot of bulbs for only a small volumn of water.

Dennis

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7265661#post7265661 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randall_James
I have a single Tunze pulsed unit in my 48" long tank and is more than adequate with the other units I have (LittleGiant 4X closed loop and Mag9 sump/refuge)

Flow is 1700Gph without the Tunze unit. So add the 1500-3200Gph surge to the 1700. Works like a champ

Aim is pretty important to keep substrate where it belongs. There is a constant change in contour of the substrate but after a week or so it stays pretty stable.

The worst part is the size of the tunze unit in a 48" tank (I aim mine down the length of the tank)

Most 120 range tanks are 72", so it would have needed 3 lights, as you are 48" 2X250W should work just fine, sorry for the bad info.

My 48" (24" deep w/4"substrate) has 2X175W MH Bluelines (10K and 10K+) 2X54W Tru-Actinic T5's and 2X36W 50/50CF's. night time is 20W 420nm ColdCathodes (1hour each side of the day)
I have this all staged to simulate dawn/dusk and am really happy with the look. The 10K and 10K+ give the tank a white look on one side and more blue on the other for an illusion of depth

Growing out tanks for maximum growth will work better at 10K or even further down the spectrum, however when you do this an move them to the 14K spectrum, they will tend to change color pretty dramatically (IME)

I have some Acros that under the 10K go brown and 3 or 4 months under the 14K, they color up nicely. Not sure what that is all about but happens pretty consistently on my setup.

T5's (I had a 254W 30G growout) was another story, It took me some time to get it working and the corals acted as though they had issues with the move from T5 to MH

I am not sure it was worth all the hassle myself. But if you are going to grow them out and display them as well, I would think that keeping the lighting the same (or at least same type) might be easier in the long run.

 

[Randall_James]

Color rendering is different for different makers. Blueline has 2 10K bulbs. One is bright the other has noticeable blue to it (10k+ and my preference)
Grow rates are documented to be much better at the yellow 6500K levels. As much of this hobby is aesthetic, I would stick with what you like for looks

Sure 400W would work fine on the 24 deep but unless you have no substrate and a need for the light on the floor of the tank, I think it is overkill. (I do have a 400W MH that I tried on my tank and I removed it due to heat issues)

downstairs in the 12" of water, light penetration is not going to be much of an issue unless they are mounted well off the water. Perhaps set your first tank up and see how you like it before you commit to the second one?

 

[bertoni]

If you want maximum growth, the Iwasaki 6500 K bulbs are hard to beat. You'll want actinics. Coloration is always a matter of personal preference, so helping there is hard. A good quality reflector is very important. Sanjay Joshi's web site has lots of very useful data:

http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/