Redfield ratio

[AquamanE]

There are wayyyy too many ways to peel a potato!

I agree, but why bring in a Bulldozer, when a hand held shovel will resolve the issue. :sad2:

 

[doggydoc]

I prefer heavy machinery.
Why some ppl drive Nissan and some drive Porsches?

 

[AquamanE]

I prefer heavy machinery.
Why some ppl drive Nissan and some drive Porsches?

DoggyDoc- you are talking about finances. No one debates the ride on a Porche is superior to a Nissan. BUT- the Nissan will take you to the same place as a Porshe. From point A to point B. Less flair but still from point A to point B.

 

[Blueline12]

Hey Eddie,

I've got it down to a science now. A squirt of MB7 and about 1/2 to 3/4 cap full of Smirnoff twice a day. If I seen too much white film I cut back a hair. Originally I started very slow like 1 ml of vodka per day and worked it up over a few weeks then leveled off to about 1/2 to 3/4 capful per day.

I've been doing it so long now I do it after I feed twice a day. Here is more info:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

MicroBacter7/Vodka dosing guide


So, I am sure by now many of you have heard of people dosing vodka and bacteria into their systems. You first thought may have been "what" or "why", but I am here to help explain the reasons behind why those of us who do dose vodka do so.

Let me start by saying I am not an expert on the subject. I am not a scientist and cannot get into the intricate details of how and why the dosing of vodka works. I can however tell you what has worked for me and give you a general idea of how vodka dosing aids ones system. Please keep in mind that this dosing system is not without risks. You can wipe out your system if the proper procedures are not followed.

Before reading what I have to say below be sure to check out the links below:

(This is a simple overview of the vodka dosing trend in this hobby)
Gimme a Vodka, on the Live Rocks, with a Splash of Heavy Skimming. (03/30/10) / Feature Articles - Quality Marine


Basically, the ethanol in vodka feeds bacteria in your aquarium which in turn multiply. When the bacteria multiplies it consumes N03 and P04. The bacteria, along with the nutrients it has consumed is then exported by a large protein skimmer. The bacteria, in this case MB7, is added in order to keep the bacteria diversified and help stave off red slime. You can dose vodka alone but I wouldn't recommend it.

When I first setup my current tank I had been adding Microbacter7 from Brightwell aquatics. While this help the tank I wasn't all that impressed. It wasn't until I started dosing vodka that things really took off. Within a month of dosing vodka I no longer had to use GFO. Within 3 months I actually had to add Amino Acids and feed the tank more as it had become "too clean". The corals had lightened up and actually stopped growing. After cutting back a bit on the vodka dosage and adding more food the corals once again took off.


Please note that you MUST have a sufficient sized skimmer and proper aeration to employ this dosing system. Reefers have crashed their setups by not running a skimmer or having proper flow/aeration.

Here are some things I have observed when dosing MB7/vodka:

PROS
-My skimmer is pulling out more gunk then ever
-My water is even clearer now
-Polyp extension in corals has greatly increased
-Coral growth has exploded. Within two weeks of dosing I have counted 36 new, small coral heads coming out of my large mille.
-The sand bed is whiter.
-Glass and overflow box stay cleaner longer.
-Coraline algae has begun to show up on pumps and over flow.

CONS
-Some corals have lightened up even more.
-Red slime is appearing in spot it hasn't before.
-Bacteria is making my sand bed clumpy, so I have to gravel vac it twice a month.


Is vodka dosing for everyone? No. But for these of you willing to take the time to understand and implement this system it can change the way you go about reef keeping. The system is simple and cost effective, allowing you to achive near ocean like water quality without the use of expensiveGFO or refugiums.

If you decide to dose MB7/Vodka here are some helpful tips:


MB7 (Bottle Instructions.)
+
Vodka (or carbon) Dosing - Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com
=========================
Probiotic Reef Keeping.

Time to dose = during lights on seems best. MB7 into the display. Vodka into the sump.

Rules
1) Need a good skimmer

Noticed in Water testing
1) high nitrates = increase vodka as per instructions.
2) no Nitrate/Po4 change in LONG time = try another carbon source like vinegar, sugar, biofuel...
3) low nitrates = maintain till 0 then reduce to maintenance levels of vodka
4) Increase in Alk = stop dosing Cal / alk, test water change h20 for alk level. Decrease with large water changes and/or chemicals if it gets bad. Corals may stop taking Cal/ALK while getting used to Probiotic system & increased light.
4) new tank/build = follow instructions, stay close to the low side of dosing.
5) Phosphate being high = a round of GFO

Noticed in Algae/Bacteria Reaction
1) Bacterial Blooms (slimy white strings) = too much bacteria, decrease vodka dosing.
2) algae on glass after increase of MB7 = reduce MB7
3) brown dusting or brown hair like stuff = decrease MB7 (also check http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/20...eament-of.html )
4) cyano = increase MB7 and/or lower/stop vodka dose. After the cyano has gone away restart the vodka from the initial or maintenence dose. If it's really bad consider a "lights out" period. If really really bad consider "Red Slime Remover."
5) peach fuzz = stop or decrease (especially vodka) dosing for a while (about a week or till the fuzz dies off) then start back up with the maintenance dose. OR This may also just go away in time.
6) glass and sand getting dirtier = dose more/feed less

Nick- whats your Vodka/Micrbackter 7 regimen?, and where did you get the info?

 

[jonnyu]

Do I sacrifice Low phosphate to battle nitrates. :uzi: Before everyone say's water changes I change 50 gallons every two weeks on my 150 gallon. My nitrates are at 100 salifert and phosphate at .04. I tried Vinegar for 4 months and all I got was higher nitrates and lower PH. I tried Vodka and I got a slime that was everywhere after 1 ml a week for 4 months stopped at 14 ml. I started this battle in February when my nitrates where at 5. Bio pellets caused red slime and also raised the nitrates. The only change has been that in December of last year I got rid of my sand and went Bare Bottom.

What skimmer are you using ? You should also get the nitrates tested with a different kit as Eddie was saying. You say all corals are doing great. I don't think nitrates at a 100 should be enough to drive your corals crazy. How many fish do you have ?

 

[rovster]

Personally I'd take a Nissan GTR over a a Porsche, but that's me

 

[rage1199]

What skimmer are you using ? You should also get the nitrates tested with a different kit as Eddie was saying. You say all corals are doing great. I don't think nitrates at a 100 should be enough to drive your corals crazy. How many fish do you have ?

I have a Diablo skimmer rated for 225 gallons and I have about 15 fish only 3 at 5 inches.

 

[jonnyu]

Don't know about that skimmer as 225 rating is most likely for light bioload. My understanding skimmer needs to oversized to carbon dose. As well you might be at the medium bioload so skimmer might not be able to keep up.

 

[Blueline12]

That's a fairly large amount of fish for a 150g including 3 five inch fish.
Not surprised you have nitrate issues if you have not established a very good nutrient export plan.

I have a Diablo skimmer rated for 225 gallons and I have about 15 fish only 3 at 5 inches.

 

[rovster]

I have have 15 fish in my 100 gallon and have not been able to get a nitrate reading yet AND I'm not carbon dosing....yet. Go figure! Its funny how tanks behave so differently.

 

[Blueline12]

Danny you have no nitrates because you don't feed your fish and just replace them when they starve to death. Haha. Just kidding.

I have have 15 fish in my 100 gallon and have not been able to get a nitrate reading yet AND I'm not carbon dosing....yet. Go figure! Its funny how tanks behave so differently.

 

[rovster]

I feed like an animal, sometimes 4-5 times a day. I give my tangs multiple pieces of nori each day. Trust me, I feed a ton and dump a ton of coral food as well. I did just add a few fish recently in an attempt to increase my bioload to get some nitrates in there, but so far I'm still crystal clear on the salifert kit. My skimmer is overrated by a good margin and I do weekly 10% waterchanges, but honestly by now I thought I was going to be carbon dosing. My phos stays in the 0.03-0.07 range controlled via GFO.

 

[jonnyu]

I feed like an animal, sometimes 4-5 times a day. I give my tangs multiple pieces of nori each day. Trust me, I feed a ton and dump a ton of coral food as well. I did just add a few fish recently in an attempt to increase my bioload to get some nitrates in there, but so far I'm still crystal clear on the salifert kit. My skimmer is overrated by a good margin and I do weekly 10% waterchanges, but honestly by now I thought I was going to be carbon dosing. My phos stays in the 0.03-0.07 range controlled via GFO.

What size skimmer are you running ?

 

[rovster]

SRO XP 2000. Not terribly overrated but I think its for 180-200 gal? I do hope that I do start reading some nitrates as I saw best colors with nitrates 0-5 on my nano. I clean my skimmer like twice a week and it produces a nice dark skim, not pasty but it stinks up the kitchen for sure.

 

[rage1199]

SRO XP 2000. Not terribly overrated but I think its for 180-200 gal? I do hope that I do start reading some nitrates as I saw best colors with nitrates 0-5 on my nano. I clean my skimmer like twice a week and it produces a nice dark skim, not pasty but it stinks up the kitchen for sure.

I have a Diablo 225xs it has always pulled some dark stuff out. I did not have a Nitrate issue a year ago in the same tank only after removing the sand a year ago. The rating for that skimmer at a medium is 200 and 180 for high so the skimmer is not the issue. I only need to empty once a week with a full cup. I will say that I do not have any unwanted algae growing in display if you did not test the water you would not know nitrates are high. I have pink every where including the glass bottom.

 

[rovster]

I was answering Johnny but if every thing looks good and you don't have algae then what is the problem?

 

[rage1199]

I was answering Johnny but if every thing looks good and you don't have algae then what is the problem?

I tested the water and it is telling me I should be having a problem. So let it go and then one day bam crash. I should be proactive. Maybe when my other tank is good I will move all my acros over and place sand back into the tank.

 

[AquamanE]

I tested the water and it is telling me I should be having a problem. So let it go and then one day bam crash. I should be proactive. Maybe when my other tank is good I will move all my acros over and place sand back into the tank.

Rage- Chill. No major changes needed yet.

You still have not answered question about the reliability of that reading of 100 Nitrates. That is extremely HIGH. Are you sure its correct. I just discovered my tank went from 0.2 to 1.5 Salifert, and i have noticed the change in SPS colors being darker. I cant imagine 100 not having any ill effects.

 

[jonnyu]

Yes 100 way to high. I ment to say 100 will not drive your fish crazy but it would be enough to kill some of your corals. I don't think your test kit is working correctly. As well as your skimmer is not pulling nutrients as it should if it's actually 100. A year ago your fish were smaller and maybe your skimmer was working well enough. At this point you need to get a 2nd test kit or take water to local shop. If you are doing water changes biweekly then I can't see how your nitrates are that high. When was the last time you pulled your skimmer and cleaned pump and all? I am running a under sized skimmer but I have auto water changes. I run about 50 gallons every 20 days . Corals seem to do at low levels like rovster said

 

[rage1199]

I went the sulfur denitrator route and 3 weeks in my nitrates are at 10!!!