Reef Chemistry Quiz 2006 is Coming!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6436889#post6436889 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley

I'm a little surprised there haven't been many dispuites yet over the answers. Boomer, Habib, and Tom argued endlessly in the beta testing (probably trying to boost their scores). :D

Well, there were a pair of questions I wondered about. In question #14 the correct answer was that borate provided 23% of the buffering of NSW at pH 8.2 In the explanation to question #18 regarding alkalinity you said:

For natural seawater, all of the contributions other than carbonate and bicarbonate are very small compared to the first two terms. All of these others combined comprise less than 4% of the total at pH 8.0


I knew borate played a larger role at higher pH, but does a change from pH 8.0 to pH 8.2 really make that much difference?
Allen
 
Tom

to move closer to the Dutch Boy

Are you sure you want to be closer to a "Dutch Boy" :lol:

Randy

Boomer, Habib, and Tom argued endlessly in the beta testing (probably trying to boost their scores).

Hey, that was not the reason. Ok, it was for Hab's and Tom's reason

Allen

I believe the the answer is in the terms, TB ( Total Borate) vs. BA (Borate Alk). Borate Alk is around 82 umol kg -1 at 8.2 pH but the TB is a round 415 umol kg -1 at 8.2 pH. Based on a table I have;

pH
.....8.0................8.1................8.2...............8.3


BA...55.5...............67.5..............81.6.............97.7

CA...2275............2263...............2248...........2332

If you now go look at another table at 8.2 pH for species


HCO3- ..................1777 umol / kg

CO3--......................225

B(OH)4-..................104

OH-.........................7

organic matter.......5-12

HPO4- + PO43-.......3

MgOH+...................2

H3SiO4-.................nil

NH3.......................nil
 
Well, there were a pair of questions I wondered about. In question #14 the correct answer was that borate provided 23% of the buffering of NSW at pH 8.2 In the explanation to question #18 regarding alkalinity you said:

For natural seawater, all of the contributions other than carbonate and bicarbonate are very small compared to the first two terms. All of these others combined comprise less than 4% of the total at pH 8.0


This is a complicated question. :)

Alkalinity is provided by several things, but mostly by bicarbonate. As the pH drops from 8.5 down and down, to say, 7.0, there is no decrease in bicarbonate (in fact, a slight increase). So the contribution of bicarbonate to alkalinity is always high.

Borate, which is the form of boric acid/borate that contributes to alkalinity, declines steadily in concentration as the pH declines from pH 8.5 (because more and more is in the boric acid form).

So it's contribution to total alkalinity is pH sensitive, and is lower at lower pH.


Buffering is a different story. As the pH drops, both of the primary buffering combinations, HCO3-/CO3-- and B(OH)3/B(OH)4- decrease in capacity as pH is lowered.

Since they are both dropping as pH is lowered, the RELATIVE contribution of borate to pH buffering pH is not lowered as fast as its relative contribution to alkalinity.

Here's the relevant section on buffering from my borate article:

'In the case of normal seawater at pH 8.2, b = 0.19 meq/L/pH unit for the boric acid/borate system, and 0.63 meq/L/pH unit for the bicarbonate/carbonate system. These values are additive, and result in a total buffering of b = 0.82 meq/L/pH unit. Under these conditions, the boric acid/borate system provides about 23% of the total buffering, while the bicarbonate/carbonate system provides about 77%.

If the pH of normal seawater is raised to 8.5, the total buffering is b = 1.2 meq/L/pH unit, or about 40% greater than at pH 8.2 (because both systems are closer to the pKa). At this pH, the relative contribution of the two systems to the total capacity is only slightly different than at pH 8.2, with 20% from borate and 80% from carbonate.

If the pH of normal seawater is lowered to 7.8, the total buffering is b = 0.42 meq/L/pH unit, or about half that at pH 8.2 (because both systems are farther from the pKa). At this pH, the relative contribution of the two systems to the total capacity is also only slightly different than at pH 8.2, with 29% from borate and 71% from carbonate."
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6443165#post6443165 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Boomer
Allen

I believe the the answer is in the terms, TB ( Total Borate) vs. BA (Borate Alk). Borate Alk is around 82 umol kg -1 at 8.2 pH but the TB is a round 415 umol kg -1 at 8.2 pH. Based on a table I have;

pH
.....8.0................8.1................8.2...............8.3


BA...55.5...............67.5..............81.6.............97.7

CA...2275............2263...............2248...........2332
[/Q]
Boomer,
But from the table, at pH 8.2, BA/BA+CA = 3.5%. The question asks:
Approximately what percentage of the buffering of natural seawater is provided by boric acid/borate at pH 8.2?
The answer is 23%. Now I realize that "buffering capacity" and "alkalinity" are not truly synonymous, but 3.5% to 23% is a big difference. Using the numbers you give for species concentrations and the formula from question 18, I come up with a contribution to TA from borate of about 4.4% at pH 8.2. Unless I am missing something, the only way this makes any sense to me is the difference between "buffering capacity" and "alkalinity".

Borate, which is the form of boric acid/borate that contributes to alkalinity, declines steadily in concentration as the pH declines from pH 8.5 (because more and more is in the boric acid form).

So it's contribution to total alkalinity is pH sensitive, and is lower at lower pH.


Buffering is a different story. As the pH drops, both of the primary buffering combinations, HCO3-/CO3-- and B(OH)3/B(OH)4- decrease in capacity as pH is lowered.


Randy,
Is this because "buffering capacity" refers to the ability to resist pH changes in either direction as opposed to alkalinity which relates only to the resistance to pH decreases?

Allen
 
Is this because "buffering capacity" refers to the ability to resist pH changes in either direction as opposed to alkalinity which relates only to the resistance to pH decreases?[?B]

Partly.

The buffering capacity is meant as resistance small changes in pH, in either direction (the value for a tiny change is the same in either direction),

Akalinity is a measure of the acid needed to drop the pH all the way to 4.2. Bicarbonate to carbonic acid is the biggest part of alkalinity, but it doesn't really kick in until down in the 5's to resist drops (or rises) there, and that effect is not noticed up in the 8's.
 
Randy,
I was thinking about the difference in definition between alkalinity and buffering capacity and had made that very connection. I was just going to post my "revelation" but I see your prompt answer beat me to it. Thanks.
Allen
 
Allen

Ok you are on line ;)

Did you try this

Borate Alk is around 82 umol kg -1 at 8.2 pH but the TB is a round 415 umol kg -1 at 8.2 pH.

and I left out from that table TA = 2330 umol kg-1

415 / 2330 = 17.8 %

Yes it is all a confusing mess at times :lol:
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6428782#post6428782 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Randy Holmes-Farley
It might be time to go over to the dark side... I mean, the biology dpt

My initial scoring scheme had the lowest score be "Maybe try biology", but before Ron Shimek parted ways with RC, he was the science editor of the magazine, and he nixed it. No sense of humor, I guess. :lol:

Haha hey I'm a bio major and I got 60% :p All that Ochem paid off a little I guess.
 
Hey Randy,

Great test! Wow, that was tough. I decided to take it closed book and only got 64% (although, I must admit that I used the online calculator that you kindly provided a link for). As with many others who have taken this test, the borate and general alkalinity questions really got me. I guess I need to reread some of your articles.

While I was disappointed in my score, I was somewhat comforted when I saw the statistics. Ahhhh, it takes me back to my college days....Ride the curve, baby!

Quinn
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6482360#post6482360 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by pennilessreefer
I got ripped off on 11! It didn't say that it automatically compensated for temp! :)

i'll take apprentice though :lol:

I agree, Question 11 is a bit bogus. I knew that most conductivity meters automatically compensate for temperature, but I assumed that the point of this question was to show that we know that temperature compensation is important.

Q
 
Yes, Tom debated that one in the beta testing. :D

My challenge to him was to ask if there were any meters ever sold that did not incorporate it. None showed up. :)

But, we'll be nice. Give yourselves an extra 2 percentage points!
 
Keep giving them away! I'll be Master Reef Chemist if I wait long enough without even studying more!
 
WaterKeeper drags out his 25 year old YSI "Magic Eye" conductivity meter and awards himself 2 extra points for finding one without a ATC. :D
 
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