Reef tanks vs. FOWLR questions

[keri2000]

Please forgive my newness to this hobby, but I have some questions that I guess I need answered before I buy anything larger and am hoping you guys can help me.

I have been doing so much reading online, but there is a ton of conflicting information regarding reef tanks.

My goal is to have mostly a reef tank. I love the coral and the "live" aspect of live rock and sand. So here are my questions:

With a reef system, there are sites that say that you only need a protein skimmer and lots of flow to keep it healthy and other sites say that you need a sump with overflow and lots of flow (these are the "reef ready" types of aquariums?). (AquariumPros.com is what has me so confused, and the search function isn't working right now on RC)

With a tank that has an overflow, your pre-filter is built into that part right? (thats the black section at the back of the tank?) and the sump is the pump which sucks the water in and sends it back into the tank, right? So the sump is the best way to go because it causes a much higher rate of flow that say an HOB or just a few powerheads and a skimmer, right? Does the sump actually filter anything, or is it strictly a pump? I keep thinking back to my house sump and all it did was pump water.

The skimmer would be a definite for me anyway, because I still want that crap pulled out of my tank that the pre-filter doesn't get. Is the pre-filter just a sponge/floss, or does it contain any charcoal or anything else that is chemical based?

Now with a FOWLR or FO, the wet/dry or bio-ball filtration is good because the media (balls or LR pieces) acts as the filter and pulls the nitrates out of the water, right? But in a reef, there is an overload and the balls become fatal, right?

Ok, I am sure there is more that I need to understand, but this is a good start for me. I am not going to buy anything until I "get" the whole concept.

This is so much different than FW!

I just finished reading: http://www.masla.com/reeftheory.html

Now I am more confused, which method have you all found is better/best? According to that article, I would be using the live sand method, but it doesn't appear to have any filtration at all. Or the Standard method, which calls for an overflow, but uses bioballs.....

 

[Reet15]

Hey Keri - it probably would be easier if someone were to give you the "visual" with the explanation - I know that works best for me - then you can do more research and decide which is best for you. We did FOWLR for 5 years before going reef, and I would do another FOWLR in a heartbeat (perhaps the 125?) LOL Let me know how I can help.

 

[keri2000]

Ok, thanks. I edited my post (see above) and am just not getting it. The conflicting information is just too much! LOL

 

[COreefer]

The best way to start is with a tank that is reef ready. Whether you do FO or reef, you want a seperate vessel for oxygen exchange, filtration, etc... (stay away from wet drys as an option for filtration, even for FO)

Next determine what you want to keep...do you want fish that are predatory on corals, or inverts? Are you drawn to the hobby by the coral? Identify your specific interests, and remember a reef tank is in the eye of the beholder. I suggest you go out and buy the "Conscientous Marine Aquarist" by Bob Fenner...it will guide you without all of the conflicting view points.

 

[calvin415]

I think a lot of this is just terminology...

First Reef Ready Aquariums simply have an overflow built into them, that's it... In that overflow is nothing more than a pipe that runs to the sump/filter. Some put sponges on them and that could be considered a prefilter however I would remove any sponges as they are a nightmare to keep clean.

Sump is a container to hold water that has gone through the overflow of the aquarium which is where all your filtration takes place. Protein Skimmer, Refugium etc...

FOWLR or FO tanks typically also use Reef Ready Aquariums because it's the overflow is the easiest way to get the water to an external filter (sump). FO tanks use bio-balls instead of Live Rock, the Bio Balls provide a surface for bacteria to grow breaking down Ammonia into Nitrite and Nitrite into Nitrate. However that's where Bio Balls stop. Nitrates must be removed with large frequent water changes or another nutrient export such as a refugium.

Since you want to go Reef, you want lots of LR and no Bio Balls as you need to keep your Nitrates low which is accomplished with Live Rock, Live Sand (regular sand that the bacteria from the live rock has colonized) and a Refugium (place to grow Macro Algae). Nitrates can be removed by passing water slowly through an oxygen poor colonized region (deep sand beds, deep holes in LR, and even remote deep sand beds)

I hope that clears it up a little??? If not Russ will be at my place tonight tank building, if you want to swing by we can discuss everything in person.

 

[keri2000]

Thank you Eric. That clears up everything! I may try to stop by, you said between 6 and 8 right?

 

[calvin415]

Yep. We'll be in the garage. Give me a call if you get lost. Everyone usually does. LOL!

 

[Mustang394]

Interesting, everyone has there own idea what works best. I know several people with successful reef tanks that run wet/drys. Going to a house in Pueblo tonight that still runs a underground filter (if you can believe that).

I prefer to run my personal tanks as natural as possible, letting live rock, sand beds and a refugium do my filteration. I use very little if any mechanical filteration and when I do it is for very short periods. ie. to clear excess material in the water column after a water change/tank cleaning. I do run a skimmer all the time, have yet to find a good natural alternative there, although there are those who would disagree.

Has worked well for me for years. But this is just what works for me. my 2 cents

 

[murfman]

I am very similar to Mustang on the way I run my tank, except (let the water change Nazis start bashing) I don't change my water much. I let the tank tell me what is going on. I have a 125 with CLM and internal overflow (made by Eric) and a 55 gallon fuge/sump. You are welcome to come by and see it as well.

 

[fuzzyt]

If there is one thing I've learned about people running reefs, its that their opinion of how to run it is almost like an expression of art. Everyone has a preference and they are all a little different. Probably why there are so many great ideas on how to get things accomplished. If we all did it the same, this would be boring, you know, like going to work.

 

[racer69]

Although not a water change Nazi, I do believe in water changes as a way to reestablish trace elements and the general export of nitrates and the such. Sorry murph, but letting the tank tell you when something is wrong usually means you waited to long and will ultimately have more work and headaches than you really want. There is something to be said for routine maintenance and if you are new to reefing simple things like water changes should not be overlooked. Also just my $.02.

Keri, you will not go wrong by listening to most anyone in this club willing to offer tier advise. However, you should make sure you know what you want to have in your glass box. If you love large fish like triggers and angels, then a full blown reef is not for you as they will eat most of your crustations and corals. If you want colorful tangs that won't harm your corals you will need at least a 6' tank for swimming room (smaller tangs the exception). Most reef keepers tend to mix their species of fishes to keep the fighting to a minimum but still keep corals and crustations healthy.

The way you set up your reef is the most important part. I have actually tried almost all of the methods listed above, and have found the method using live sand, live rock and a sump with a skimmer to be the most effective. Now having a closed loop for circulation as a great idea, and there are many friends up there that will help you with that. I do think it is very effective and not very expensive (pump, and plumbing), plus you don't have to have the unsightly power heads glued to the glass.

Remember to plan it the way you want it. I try to ask anyone that I help set up a tank what they want and go from there. Thus far I have had great success this way.

 

[Thurge]

As said the Sump is just a vessel for holding water, adding to the total system volume. You may not have anything more than a return pump or it could be as elaborate as housing a Refugium, remote DSB, skimmer, and/or more Live Rock for filtration. At one point I actually pulled my skimmer out of my system and replaced it with a half dozen steamer clams inthe sump, and 4 Throny Oystures in the main tank. Worked nicely for a long while. I currently have one tank I run a reverse under gravel filter on (pump into the filter plate and let it perculate back up through the gravel), that is surprisingly clean.

My recommendation would be to get a copy of "The Conscienceous Marine Aquarist, by Bob Fenner" as this will answer a lot of the questions you are asking in a simplestic manor, and will also answer a lot of your future questions. I really don't think any reefer should go without this or a similar book. Mike Paleta has a good general salt water book also.