ReefKeeping Mag Goniopora Article Review

[John Kelly]

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Mark, your just a troublemaker LOL
The first stew was probably invented when 1 person wasn't enough to feed the tribe anymore.

Actually, the "stew" took quite a bit of research and experimenting to create. It had to have the correct size, texture, taste, and ingredients to work. If you just dumped it into the tank, it wouldn't do a very good job of feeding your other corals because most of it would stay clumped, but yet it is soft enough to draw up into a target feeding device and for a goni to suck down. It needed to be viscous enough to hold a variety of foods and not come apart, but it also needed to be liquid enough that the goni would taste it and not reject it like they do dry foods. Since some goni's have small mouths and some have large, it needed to be adjustable from more viscous to less.

 

[John Kelly]

If anyone deserves credit and references related to Goniopora feeding, and especially supplementation (iron), it's Julian Sprung. He's written and spoken about this topic long before anyone mentioned in this thread. As far as I'm concerned, that's the real oversight and slight. Greg

Actually, I think his second turn is coming...or is it third?

 

[greenbean36191]

Leslie, I couldn't have said it better myself.... I tried and I failed miserably.

The comment that he beat you to publishing in RK was not intended to imply that it was a race to be the first to publish as many people have obviously taken it. It simply meant that sometimes when two people are working on the same problem and one publishes in a more public venue first, then they are usually the one that gets the glory. It sucks for the other guy (you), but it doesn't make the work you did any less valuable.

Trying to improve our success at keeping these animals shouldn't turn into a ****ing match.

 

[John Kelly]

As a scientist who has a few publications, I know that I don't have to reference everyone in my field who has ever lifted a pipet, but to choose the ones that most closely impact my work.

BINGO!

 

[justincognito]

Very interesting thread. I am a little flattered but i'm not in this to fan my ego. First off i have only been to Jen and Kerry's website but not Reefartist. Seconnd I have spent well over a year using many different foods, noting reactions, making careful observations. I worked really, really hard on this article. I spent many days after work (2months straight right before it was done) and many sleepless nights to the detriment of my family. I made sure iwas as accruate as possible and that initself required much research. What you may have noticed is that i have only included 8 or 9 species of GOniopora. I have more under my care but i only wrote of the ones that i have had for a considerable period of time and i felt i was doing well with. Eric Borneman suggested i write the article and i thought the time was right.
Reef artist i understand you have been doing food mixtures. I have been using them for years with many other corals i grow. Perhaps our lists are so similar is because there are only so many foods available, and we have both discovered which have the best feeding reactions. I must give credit to Jen and Kerry for the Liquid life. If i didn't in this article i beleive i did in my MACNA talk. The reason i did not include threads in my article is because there are not peer reveiwed. Everything we say here is conjecture. Whenever i say anything in publication or at a talk that is not "proven" i make sure to say, " In my opinion." Referencing threads or websites is not proper in when writing an article. If i did that i would not be scientificaly accurate. I give much credit to everyone taking time to post and make websites dedicated these corals. I wrote this article because of my absolute love of these corals.
We can argue the merits of who did it first. But guess what? None of did. Eric B. has had a Goniopora for 9 years. Beat that!! some people have kept them for over a dozen years.
I have to go my kids are fighting.

 

[justincognito]

i meant say "None of us did."

 

[Flatlander]

Heck, we all did a food stew. Nothing new. I,m sure I had threads on it many years ago, posted here someplace. I fed my soft corals, {no Goniopora}, a mush. My corals grew like crazy and I kept many aquarists in soft corals from propagation. Some of the larger were in my old 170, {April/01, TOTM}, {seeing as everyone else is tooting someones horn, :lol:.

However, I still like the "research" and articles, these aquarists are doing. Even though I still dont keep any Goniopora, I like to read the articles and threads from the above mentioned authors. Keep up the good work, as our "hobby", can only benefit.

 

[JENnKerry]

Yeah, our "stew" is nothing spectacular. It's just what all of our corals like. Our LPS love it, as do the fish. The gonis eat it but until recently, we've only been feeding the gonis the LL. It's a trial and error thing to see what they like. For us, it's the LL, nothing else.

 

[shane 1111]

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I have to go my kids are fighting.

you have kids! you look mad young!
how old are you. i thought you were around 25

 

[Aqua_expert19]

I'm sure a newbie that got suckered into buying a goniopora will have that much better of a chance at getting one to survive.

ME!!! i bought mine a year ago and it has been abused and mistreated and it has grown and thrived for some time i love my gonni. Sorry ive been no help

 

[John Kelly]

Very interesting thread. I am a little flattered but i'm not in this to fan my ego.

Really? Then why did you and your friend obi-dad, who was the first person to post a reply here, spam 10 different threads (or forums) here on RC annoucing your article? ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦on the same day together.

First off i have only been to Jen and Kerry's website but not Reefartist.

I find that very hard to believe.

Seconnd I have spent well over a year using many different foods, noting reactions, making careful observations.

TAKEN FROM YOUR POST HERE ON RC 6/15/05:
"I have had success with about 6-8 different Goniopora for about 3 years."

TAKEN FROM YOUR ARTICLE:
ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œFor the first two and a half years, I did no direct feeding of the colonies except for occasional additions of phytoplankton.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚

So you had your colonies maybe 3 years and did no direct feeding of the colonies except for occasional additions of phytoplankton for the first two and a half years, then say you have spent well over a year using many different foods, noting reactions, making careful observations?

So how long have you really been experimenting with Goniopora by feeding small foods, stews, liquid life, anything? 4 months maybe?

Again,

TAKEN FROM THE ARTICLE:
ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œOver the last nine months I have begun adding Kent Iron supplement weekly as per directions on the bottle.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚

TAKEN FROM YOUR POST HERE ON RC 6/15/05:
"I also just started iron supplementing. Seem to help."

Justin, please get your stories straight.....

I will stick with what I have said here in this thread:
-- 99.9% of the foods and feeding advancements have come from 2 people. JenNKerry at www.reefcraze.com (using Liquid Life Marine Plankton. site published in April) and myself at www.goniopora.org (utilizing the "stew" of mashed cyclopeeze and a number of other foods. site published in July).
-- If it were not for these advancements; I believe that there would not be a "Goniopora Care and Propagation" article.
-- ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œCredit needs to be given where credit is due.ââ"šÂ¬Ã‚
-- I think he purposely left out any reference to my work and Jen/Kerry's too in an attempt to sound as if he is braking all this "new ground".

 

[shane 1111]

how many different types do you keep and frag?
one maybe 2

 

[MiddletonMark]

I will stick with what I have said here in this thread:
-- 99.9% of the foods and feeding advancements have come from 2 people.

Eric Borneman and Julian Sprung.

Let's get it right, shall we? You're the first to ever devise a mush?

Except for the addition of LL [newer on the market ...] - I haven't heard of any novel change to coral mush.
Can I say I have a radical new version, since I put Oyster Eggs in mine? Should everyone who feeds any mixed coral food now have to credit me, as I added something?

 

[shane 1111]

Eric Borneman and Julian Sprung were the ones that need credit.
and i have ben to JENnKerry's site. but i have never herd of you ReefArtist. what have you done?
i have never seen a post with you in it ReefArtist

 

[Obi-dad]

I also had never been to ReefArtist's site, nor heard of him until he posted this thread. This thread comes off like ReefArtist is very jealous that someone else wrote about feeding goniopora.

 

[Steven Pro]

Just for a frame of reference, I know Martin Moe published a mush food recipe in his 1982 The Marine Aquarium Handbook: Beginner to Breeder. That is a little over two decades ago and there may have been others. That is simply the oldest book in my reference library.

 

[John Kelly]

I also had never been to ReefArtist's site, nor heard of him until he posted this thread. This thread comes off like ReefArtist is very jealous that someone else wrote about feeding goniopora.

ReefArtist, a lot of people here on RC have read the posts by you and by JenNKerry, and would acknowledge your contribution to the care of goniopora knowledge

This makes a lot of sense......

 

[mhurley]

[flamealert]

 

[John Kelly]

Let's get it right, shall we?
You're the first to ever devise a mush?

OK.

Actually, YES. A Goniopora mush. Why do you keep pointing back to Eric B.? Do you think he invented the idea of a mush? or how about Martin M. do you think he invented the idea of a mush? I am not trying to take credit for the idea of a mush. I guess you didn't read my last reply to you. It took a lot of research to figure out what foods a goniopora would or could consume.

And I think you are entirely missing the point of my post.........a lot of goniopora foods and feeding research has gone on in the last 8 1/2 months. All I am trying to point out is that Justin has built on this research. What is wrong with that? This research has obviously helped Justin's attempts at propagating. I think his closer look at individual species is very interesting, but you don't go from DSB and phytoplankton feedings to target feeding specific foods that Goniopora will show a positive feeding response to out of nowhere.
There is a link between the "old" method of keeping Goniopora and the "new" method of keeping Goniopora.'
I hope that makes my intentions more clear.

For example:
I am currently trying to find the minimum amount of iron that a few species of goniopora needs in order to keep their polyps extended. Do you think I am going to write an article about how I did this with iron and I did that with iron, without mentioning the awesome work of Julian Sprung? I am merely trying to build on it and respect the fact that he identified a single element that goniopora needed. Finding foods that goniopora will and can eat is very similar to finding that single element.

 

[Obi-dad]

This makes a lot of sense......

My error, I was actually referring to having read JenNKerry, I hadn't been to your website.

All I am trying to point out is that Justin has built on this research.

You don't know this to be true.


To repeat what I said before, no one is disagreeing that you have made posts about feeding goniopora. What we are disagreeing with is you taking 99.9% of the credit of the advancements in feeding goniopora.