ReefWreak finally got an upgrade!

[ReefWreak]

For the history of my reefing, please see my last thread here

A brief background: I have graduated from an ebay 24g nanocube with 12 fishes (including a yellow tang) to a 120g SPS dominated reef, then back to a 29g SPS dominated, to this new build.

Before jumping immediately into my next move, I want to preface this with that my ideal tank would be a 265g or larger, in my own house. Well, neither of those were in the cards, so I'm still renting (though it is a house), but the tank (mostly) worked out, and I ended up with a Red Sea Reefer, 92 gallon display, 5' long by 20" front to back, and 22" deep.

I ordered a Reefer 425XL for the extra depth front to back, so 48x23x22, but it was St. Patrick's day, so a leprechaun decided to cause some mischief (mostly in my favor), and instead sent me the Reefer 450, 60x20x22. The aquarium store employees carried the tank into the front door, and I said, Hmmm :hmm2: , that looks a little big"¦ And has 3 cabinet doors"¦ But it ended up working out, and I'm very happy, and it fits the space beautifully. Not to mention it makes me feel a little less bad about having tangs in a <6' tank.

The basic equipment list is as follows:
Red Sea Reefer 450
Jeacod DCT-6000 DC return pump
Apex Wifi System
Nyos 160 Skimmer
2x Radion G4 Pro w/ Reeflink
Real Reef Shelf Rock + Rock remnants from another reefer, acid bathed

And an obligatory (though mine was definitely not as happy about being in the tank as Soulpatch's was):

To be decided:
What do I do about flow? Gyre XF 250 or 280, or whatever comes up used? (I thought about using the MP10s together to create a gyre, but I think that would have barely worked with a 48" tank, 60" forget it)
2 part dosing for long term use, or switch over to a calcium reactor
GFO or lanthanum chloride dosing on occasion
Algal Turf Scrubber (do I turn the stock ATO into a small fuge/ATS?)

So I'm thoroughly impressed with the tank, and everyone who sees it loves it. I'm extremely excited to get started a new, stable, and really get a nice reef with tons of growth and coloration. Thank you to all of you reefing friends whose threads I occasionally pop into and follow closely, for keeping the reefkeeping torch going bright. :wavehand:

 

[ReefWreak]

Empty tank/sump:

I might do another bath on the rocks. Left is before, right is after:

 

[soulpatch]

You are gonna need more lighting for the sps I believe. At least one more fixture to full coverage and guarding against shadowing.


Otherwise looking great.


For flow I'd go larger pumps if you can do it. I liked my gyre but it was a pain to keep clean. The flow pattern was sweet so go with 280 if you want gyre.

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[ReefWreak]

I'll take a look at the larger Gyre if/when I decide to go that route. I'm hoping I can find some MP40s or large Tunze pumps for cheap (or even trade my MP10wqds for MP40wqds).

I'm going to see how it works out with just the two lights. I've heard phenominal feedback from reefers I trust, including that I should be okay with those lights, but we'll see. All things considered, light has never been one of the issues I've had to deal with. Fluctuating parameters? Yup. Fish/pests bothering corals? Yup (not on this tank, but historically). Never lighting, so we'll see long term. I was ready to go for the 48" ATI 8 bulb with the nanobox retrofits, but the one I was eyeing was sold, so back to the drawing board. Figured I'd get these Radions, and they better last me a decade (same with the tank). The new lenses apparently make a big difference in dispersion, and there's plenty of light in the fixture, and I love that the Pro had the additional blue/UV/violet channels, which I think make a huge difference in color from my placement of them in my DIY fixture on the nano.

I almost went with DIY lights again, but it just wouldn't look as clean, and this build was all about "I saved up $XXXX and I want to really have a build that shows it". It worked out for my PC, I haven't had the upgrade itch in 3+ years now. Hopefully that holds true with this tank.

 

[homer1475]

Bout friggen time!!!!

Why trade in the mp10's? Mine work just fine on 1/2" glass and you also have 1/2" glass. I just can't crank them up past 95% or the wet side spins. I would try them out before giving up on them, thats an extra 600$ in your pocket for right now.

Hope you like the reefer series. I've been reading a lot about people not happy with the setup once it's up an running. One of the biggest complaints is no room for a proper skimmer, and the ATO reservoir is way to small.

 

[homer1475]

As a side note.....

What happened to your biocube and its inhabitants?

 

[E.intheC]

Killer looking tank!

As for flow, I agree with the larger pump suggestion- either two mp40s or a pair of Tunze 6105s would be a great start.

Depending on your rock scape, I think you will likely be fine with two Radions, especially if you go with a two-island structure. I have one G3 on my Midi, which is (roughly) a 22x19inch footprint and it's plenty of light.

 

[homer1475]

Definitely let me know how you end up liking that NYOS skimmer. I've been eyeing one myself, but have read quite a few bad reviews. Everything from loud, to breaking off the little tabs that hold the motor in place.

The bad reviews held me back from picking up a litely used one for less then half the price of new.

 

[ReefWreak]

Bout friggen time!!!!

Why trade in the mp10's? Mine work just fine on 1/2" glass and you also have 1/2" glass.

Hope you like the reefer series. I've been reading a lot about people not happy with the setup once it's up an running. One of the biggest complaints is no room for a proper skimmer, and the ATO reservoir is way to small.

It's not the glass thickness (5/8"), it's that I imagine they won't provide enough flow to get things moving in the 60" span, even if set up as a dual-powered gyre only. I've considered putting them on the back, and combining them with an actual Gyre pump, but that's still TBD. They're definitely getting a good bleaching before going anywhere, but I for sure will try them before giving up.

As for the reefer series, I've been tanksitting intermittently for a friend locally with his Reefer 350 for 2+ years now, so I'm very familiar with the day to day of the tank. I figured the 425xl would be the same as his tank but with the extra 3" front to back. He has the Nyos 160 and loves it, and it's been easy for me to care for on his tank. The only thing that he has that I won't be investing in is an ARID reactor, as they're just a little $$$ for my taste, but his tank has been amazing through both the ARID, heavy skimming, and that he spends a lot of time with the tank. He has an entire furniture piece that you'd never know was an ATO reservoir, so I may end up doing something like that next to the tank, though right now I do have that full stand hardware cabinet empty.

As a side note.....

What happened to your biocube and its inhabitants?

Almost all of the corals died in my move. The fish almost didn't make it too, but they survived in a bucket for a few weeks, and the cube, while green, is still going again. I'll leave the fishes in there till the big tank is up and running fully with rock. They're small fish, so I could put them in now without a skimmer or liverock and I'm sure they couldn't poop enough to really mess with the chemistry, but I'm trying to keep the tank clean until everything is together, if for no other reason than just not stressing out the fishes more.

I'm on the fence as to whether to set the 29g up in the basement as a quarantine tank for fishes and coral (though I still want to start getting into the habit of TTM+Prazi as Soulpatch does), or whether to get rid of it entirely and do QT in a home depot 12 gallon bucket or no QT except TTM/Prazi. TBD!

Killer looking tank!

As for flow, I agree with the larger pump suggestion- either two mp40s or a pair of Tunze 6105s would be a great start.

Depending on your rock scape, I think you will likely be fine with two Radions, especially if you go with a two-island structure. I have one G3 on my Midi, which is (roughly) a 22x19inch footprint and it's plenty of light.

Thanks for the recommendation on flow. We'll see what I can find used locally until I get some pennies back in the piggy bank. Piggy bank is looking a little emaciated right now.

The feedback on the Radion coverage is helpful, thanks! I would like to have some more varied light with this tank, and I think the increased dispersion of light with the Radions will be helpful in that regard. All of the new technology to help re-create 250w metal halide coverage is hilarious, but required. As long as ultimately the LEDs are lower wattage (consumption and heat generation) then it's a worthwhile investment.

Definitely let me know how you end up liking that NYOS skimmer. I've been eyeing one myself, but have read quite a few bad reviews. Everything from loud, to breaking off the little tabs that hold the motor in place.

The bad reviews held me back from picking up a litely used one for less then half the price of new.

I'll let you know. As I mentioned above, I've been tanksitting a tank with this pump for over 2 years, and he's had the skimmer the whole time. I think the only issue he's had is he had a Nyos 120, and the pump went bad, but it was replaced within a week, and he sold that and upgraded to the 160. His 120 produces nice, consistent skimmate, and I haven't had to fiddle with it. I'll keep my eyes and fingers out for any tabs to break or things going wrong. If in fact Nyos is serviced by Ecotech support, then I'm generally okay with it, as Ecotech support is generally very good, and are helpful and quick to replace anything that has gone wrong (in my limited experience).

 

[homer1475]

At the very least, TTM and prazi are a must. It's one of many protocols I use, but it is the only one I do on every fish regardless of where they came from. I have honestly never been into any LFS lately that does not have at least 1 fish with ich. And seeing as most LFS's have their fish only tanks setup into one common sump....... You get where I'm going.

Whats the old saying.....

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[soulpatch]

It's not the glass thickness (5/8"), it's that I imagine they won't provide enough flow to get things moving in the 60" span, even if set up as a dual-powered gyre only. I've considered putting them on the back, and combining them with an actual Gyre pump, but that's still TBD. They're definitely getting a good bleaching before going anywhere, but I for sure will try them before giving up.

Even with gyre you are likely going want some additional flow on the back walls. I also suggest the random flow generators from vivid to add to the returns.

Almost all of the corals died in my move. The fish almost didn't make it too, but they survived in a bucket for a few weeks, and the cube, while green, is still going again. I'll leave the fishes in there till the big tank is up and running fully with rock. They're small fish, so I could put them in now without a skimmer or liverock and I'm sure they couldn't poop enough to really mess with the chemistry, but I'm trying to keep the tank clean until everything is together, if for no other reason than just not stressing out the fishes more.

I would leave them out till you have the rockwork and such in tank and settled on. They could be moved into the tank but you will need to mitigate ammonia and such which will extend your cycle. Remember you WANT the tank to get up higher in ammonia to bring bacteria counts up. Having fish in there means you need to keep it in check elongating your cycle.

I'm on the fence as to whether to set the 29g up in the basement as a quarantine tank for fishes and coral (though I still want to start getting into the habit of TTM+Prazi as Soulpatch does), or whether to get rid of it entirely and do QT in a home depot 12 gallon bucket or no QT except TTM/Prazi. TBD!

My biggest mistake with the 150 was not keeping the biocube and running it as a coral frag/qt tank. I could have saved myself the issue with aiptasia had I done so. Fish is a no brainer that you need to at least do TTM with Prazi. I normally finish with that as if they have velvet or brook the stress of tank transfers should bring it out. My TTM lasts 3 weeks as I do numerous 2 day transfers and go over the recomended 12 days to 16 instead typically.

My next tank will be started from scratch again with a vigerous QT on EVERYTHING that goes in including CUC. It is a hassle but MUCH less so then dealing with an issue in tank. A single longer term QT tank for corals and CUC would suffice keeping them in there for a month for CUC and longer for corals just to be safe. This is especially important as you continue with SPS and get more named pieces. The speed of which things wipe out SPS is incredible...

Thanks for the recommendation on flow. We'll see what I can find used locally until I get some pennies back in the piggy bank. Piggy bank is looking a little emaciated right now.

Welcome to parenthood and be prepared for that for next umteen years... I am excited mine hits school this year and as such I will "save" nearly 1000 a month from daycare costs every month she is in school. Summercamp will still be like 1300 I spend now a month but still a win on my part. Downside is the cost f clothing is increasing as are her activities....

The feedback on the Radion coverage is helpful, thanks! I would like to have some more varied light with this tank, and I think the increased dispersion of light with the Radions will be helpful in that regard. All of the new technology to help re-create 250w metal halide coverage is hilarious, but required. As long as ultimately the LEDs are lower wattage (consumption and heat generation) then it's a worthwhile investment.

Unless you need to run a chiller (like I do) I dont get the heat arguement. The tank needs heat from wherever. Whatever it gains from lighting is offset by lower runtimes of actual heaters and IMHO provides a slightly more realistic of water at top being slightly warmer then bottom of tank.

I still believe you will need more lighting unless you go for 2 islands. A dispersion panel is all well and good but there is only so much you can do to fight shadowing when dealing with light from a puck or single source like with Kessil.

 

[five.five-six]

Nice step up!

 

[ReefWreak]

Thank you sir! I'm still following your beautiful build.

Updates:

Trying to figure out flow. I'd like to go for MP40wQDs, but I think I'm going to go on the side of Neptune WAVs for the tie-in to the Apex system, and they're almost half the price of the MP40s (which leaves some budget if I decide to buy a gyre as well). I have a reeflink so the MP40s would tie in there too, but the feed mode would be best controlled via the single source on the Apex (which I know I can still tie-in for another $100).

My friend who has the Reefer 350 has a really nice setup with his feed mode that does all of the sequential powering-down and restarting again for all of his equipment when it is in feed mode, so it would be nice to have that nicely packaged, not to mention the notifications and power output monitoring and control.

They'll be more of a pain to clean, and narrower flow patterns, but I think it will be a worthwhile experiment, and I've seen them run and they do a good job in the reefer tanks. I can also have another friend 3d print one of those Vivid flow generators (since he just took the 3d print file that someone else made and is selling them). Hoping to have something ordered tonight, so any feedback would be helpful. The quick timing is that ebay has a 15% off coupon right now, so I'm trying to gogogo to get it for that since they're all MAP pricing.

 

[soulpatch]

Thank you sir! I'm still following your beautiful build.

Updates:

Trying to figure out flow. I'd like to go for MP40wQDs, but I think I'm going to go on the side of Neptune WAVs for the tie-in to the Apex system, and they're almost half the price of the MP40s (which leaves some budget if I decide to buy a gyre as well). I have a reeflink so the MP40s would tie in there too, but the feed mode would be best controlled via the single source on the Apex (which I know I can still tie-in for another $100).

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. What can I do to swing you the other way save for my own personal experience with those pumps or links to the NUMEROUS other threads here and on Neptune's forums calling out the pumps for thier horrible durability. Most only get 12 months out of them and I got 18. They are SUPER bulky as well with limited docusing of the flow and the flow pattern is very narrow. Please go another route....

My friend who has the Reefer 350 has a really nice setup with his feed mode that does all of the sequential powering-down and restarting again for all of his equipment when it is in feed mode, so it would be nice to have that nicely packaged, not to mention the notifications and power output monitoring and control.

They'll be more of a pain to clean, and narrower flow patterns, but I think it will be a worthwhile experiment, and I've seen them run and they do a good job in the reefer tanks. I can also have another friend 3d print one of those Vivid flow generators (since he just took the 3d print file that someone else made and is selling them). Hoping to have something ordered tonight, so any feedback would be helpful. The quick timing is that ebay has a 15% off coupon right now, so I'm trying to gogogo to get it for that since they're all MAP pricing.

I will have review of the RFG soon and I think Homer has them already as well.

As for feed mode I dont really see the need personally and find it gimmicky. I WANT the pumps on to blow the food around the tank and get to my LPS and whatnot. I utilize sinking pellets and thaw my frozen foods so nothing stays at surface to be caught up in the overflow save for a few small morsels occassionally which help feed fuge inhabitants anyway.


Either way if nothing else tell me what all you need from me to sway you AWAY from the WAVs. That I am totally adament about as for the money I put them under a jabeo for quality. Sure they have a decent apex tie in but who cares when they fail so soon and cost so much.

 

[ReefWreak]

Done. I'm ordering 2xMP40wQDs. I've had fantastic luck with the MP10s, and I hope that continues. Not to mention fancy reeflink. Maybe I'll get the vortech apex adapter down the road and still have my feed mode business all in one spot.

I saw Homer's excitement about the RFG, so I'm interested to hear your experience as well. For what it's worth, I'm not pushing much GPH out of my return. I'm planning on keeping it relatively low flow. I'm currently using the DCT-6000 (1500gph) at half power, and that's plenty of sump flow IMO. More pressing to do with sump flow is what to do about filter socks. I have the red sea ones now, but I know that I should move to something else as soon as food starts hitting the tank. I'm really interested in the drilled cups that MarineDepot has. I saw Pelphrey has a good video on cutting normal 4" socks to fit the RSR, however he doesn't specify what socks he bought or what they were called, so I have more research to do to go that route.

 

[soulpatch]

I am going to go the cup route myself here eventually and rock filter floss and such. I HATE socks personally and normally run sockless. I do have mesh socks I will throw in to catch larger items but they dont get everything.

I think the benefit to the RFG is the variable flow pattern regardless of the amount of flow you do through sump. I push a decent amount through my sump though really only 6x an hour as 1 inch pipe is limited to at most roughly 960 GPH. Add in plumbing restrictions and fact not straight down and likely only 900 GPH for me which is around 6-7x...

I am not using the RFG due to the amount of flow but more so since it is variable and will add some more water flow collision in my tank which I hope delights the corals.

 

[ReefWreak]

I'm totally with you. I hate socks and mechanical filtration in general.... but man, a clean sump does look so nice... I don't own a shopvac (yet) so I don't have a means to siphon directly from the bottom of the glass (though if I do my basement WC hose I could siphon from the sump...Just picked up my Mag12 for pumping back up from the basement into the tank).

I'll look into the cups with filter floss, as they seem pretty reasonable, except I saw someone had them clog/not process fast enough without some rubble or buffer between the holes and the filter floss, so might need some thinking there.

So now that MP40wQDs (apparently they ONLY make wQDs now, ALL MP40s that are new in box are wQD) are ordered and on their way, I can turn my attention back to my rockwork tomorrow and what I'm going to do for topoff, since I really want to turn the current topoff setup into a black-vinyl covered refugium/algae growth tank.

I did a second acid wash on my rocks this week. I'm still not convinced they aren't going to have nutrients leaching from them. It pulled nasty gunk off of the rocks (and the hose got whatever was loose), and the rocks weren't dirty to begin with (had nice coralline, but some algae patches and cyano), but I expected the rocks to come out bleach white, and it definitely doesn't look that way. I think it will be fine though. Definitely did some boiling/burning of the rock surface, I guess some rocks just have weird coloration spots that don't come out? I'm fairly certain the rocks don't have copper or anything else really bad in them, I really just tried to burn off any nutrients, "dead stuff", or potential pests that I didn't see, and I suspect whatever I did was sufficient for that.

I'm getting pumped about getting the rock in the tank and starting the journey! This box of water in my living room, while beautiful, is giving me the itch to start filling it... Patience patience patience...

 

[soulpatch]

one of the best investments you can make is to get the home depot 5 gallon bucket suction lid which makes a bucket a shop vac.

For the socks my sump has 3 holes and as the first clogs the second takes over and so on. I ONLY run 2 socks so the furthest hole is always open when I do happen to run socks.

For ATO grab yourself a BAO ato tank with a mounted float valve. Or look into those who put it into an ottoman as your daughter can use that to stand on and look at tank.

 

[ReefWreak]

Doesn't look as bad in pictures as I thought it would.

Rock is in. Last night the skimmer and Apex were delivered. Vortech pumps are coming soon as well. I plan on setting up the BRS 1.1ml/min peristaltic pumps for now, and keeping that going for a while until demands get higher.

This new Apex is really slick. Includes salinity and ORP out of the box? YESSS less stuff to buy (even though I have the digital milwaukee salinity refractometer, which is FANTASTIC).

The Nyos skimmer is also very nicely built, and is DEAD SILENT. It'll be a while before I can provide any useful review, since there's no bioload in the tank. I hear the faintest of high pitched whines from the DCT-6000 return pump at 50%, and if I am hovering over the tank, I hear the fans of the radions, but I don't hear the skimmer at all, and I think the overall tank qualifies as silent. Can't wait to get the vortech in now that they'll be silent too (though I haven't experienced the MP40s, but the 10s are silent for sure).

Oh yeah, and the FTS.

 

[JVan82]

Why not control the Radions through your apex?

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