REFUGE idea...EVERYONE READ N PITCH IN IDEAS

[emonemo420]

this pic took me a while to make pretty so dont make fun of it but i was thinking of something like this to add a fuge to my system. The smaller tank being my ten gallon ...drill it and my sump and let em free flow maybe? idk ive been staring at my sump for hours trying to figure out a way to lay them next to each other and get it to work... ideas?

 

[jdieck]

I think it will be easier to have a higher water level in the refugium than in the sump so you can also partially rise the refugium so it drains into the sump. Have part of the drain divert to the refugium and from there to the sump and from the sump ack to the main.

 

[emonemo420]

sooo like this?

 

[jdieck]

No, split the main tank drain in two, one to the refugium one to the sump, then refugium to sump.
May need to set the refugium in a small stand so it overflows better into the sump. The lvel in the sump can be lower than the level in the fuge.

 

[emonemo420]

"split the main tank drain in two, one to the refugium one to the sump, then refugium to sump"

??

split the main tank drain in two
one to fuge
one to sump

ok then u said refuge to sump.....alright isnt that the same as i had it...time for another pic

 

[jdieck]

Last drawing is what I suggest. In the previous drwing you had the split in the return line (from sump to main) rather than in the drain.
You do not need to connect the refugium and sump with a sloped pipe. just insure that the water surface level in the refugium is higher than the water level in the sump. An overflow from the fuge to the sump will be enough.
You may need to install a valve in the drain pipe after the T before the exit to the sump, by partially closing the valve you can direct more or less of the drained water to the refugium.

Why do I suggest this way is basically two reasons.
a) water with more nutrients comes out of the main and not the sump. The more nutrients in the fuge the better will be easier for the macro to grow and process them.
b) Is easier to control and have a higher water level in the refugium than in the sump. In the sump the water level will need to be set to control other conditions like minimum inlet pressure to return pump, contant level for skimmer and allow enough empty sump to receive the drain water from the main and refugium when the return pump is shut off.

BTW if the black dots in the sump are bio-balls, you will not need them if you will be using live rock.

 

[a1amap]

Drilling a 10 gallon can be done but I wouldn't do it. The glass is so thin that it will most likly break. I know one of our guys did it(firecrackerbob I beleive) but I have heard a lot of them break. Not so much from the drilling but after the bulkhead is in it can't be bent at all. If you do drill use a diamond hole saw. Also it would be a good idea to silicon a acrylic sheet to the side with the bulkhead to add strenght.

You may want to keep it a little more simple. Why not add apiece of acrylic to seperate the one tank so it is a sump and fuge. It will make it easier to control the water flow and less chance of a water spill on your floor. I use some black weather stripping around a piece of acrylic to create the fuge area.

I usually have my skimmer on the left but I have it out while it soaks to get clean.

Also can you do me a favor, instead of posting a new thread every time you post could you use the same thread? If they are the same topic we will still follow it. It makes it easier. RC puts a little arrow next to all the topics that have a new post since I last read the thread.

 

[Jocephus]

Josh, there's nothing that says your fuge has to be an aquarium. Get a big bucket, or a rubbermade, something easier to drill. It doesn't have to be pretty, it's in the stand.

 

[a1amap]

Yeah what he said.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

I'd do your second drawing. I've heard you dont want your drain going into the fuge first without going thru the skimmer yet, due to detris buildup. I am going to have my return T'd off and have a valve to slowly have flow into the fuge. I will be using a rubbermade bin and drilling it to drain back into the sump. You dont want a lot of flow or detris buildup in the fuge. I'd use a rbbermade as suggested as well, cheap, easy to drill and most can be fit into tight spots.

 

[gotasplinter]

try this thread its got alot of info to read up on and alot of pics. I posted pics of mine on there. I have a rubbermaid trash can for mine. not the best but its been working for almost 2 years now. Lee

http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10264&highlight=phosban+reactor

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sumpforreturnpumpfortanme7.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=feedtosumppumpfortankiy3.jpg

 

[kaptken]

Idealy , you have the full overflow return going thru the fuge first, then to the sump and skimmer and then return to the tank via pump. you dont have to use a glass tank for the fuge. a sturdy plastic container would do . easy to drill and install a bulkhead for an overflow back to the sump.

a full flow fuge is the best. just have to make sure algae does not have a chance to plug the overflow to the sump, or once again, wet carpet.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

The full flow of the overflow would be too much, plus you'd get built up detris in the fuge. You want a slow flow through your fuge and have the skimmer breakdown the big stuff first, then naturally purify your water thru the fuge.

 

[icy1155]

It depends on if you are using the fuge to grow copeopods and the like or if you want it strictly for nutrient removal by macro algae. If you want to grow pods and the like, put the fuge on one side of the sump, the skimmer on the other, with the return pump in the middle. With that set up you would need to split your overflow line in 2, one going to each side of the fuge. If it is going to simply be fore nutrient removal it really doesnt matter where you put the algae and skimmer and in what order, because at least with cheato the more flow the better since that means that more nutrients will be in contact with the algae, so the more your algae will grow and strip nutrients from the water.

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

More flow equals more contact with the algae? That isn't true, the water will flow by so fast, it won't do a thing. You want the flow to be very slow, so the algae has time to do its thing, absorb the nutrients. Everyone who has refugiums set up (that work atleast) have a slow almost trickle flow going thru them. I'll have to find a few threads on fuge's to show you guys.

 

[emonemo420]

hmmmmmmmmmm.......where do i get a bulkhead? and how do they work...or should i say how do they install...easy?

 

[Jocephus]

So many experts, so little time. Just plumb the damn thing already. Personally, I wouldn't think that it really matters what order you go in. Your skimmer isn't efficeint enough that it will pull all the nutrients out, and the flow thing just doesn't make sense at all. You'll either remove a lot of nutrients from a little of the water, or a little of the nutrients from a lot of the water. A bulkhead is just a coupling of sorts that you use to connect the pipes to your newly drilled tank. It has a gasket to prevent leaks, and allows somewhere for the pipe to tie into. Try That Fish Place, or I don't really know real locally.

 

[icy1155]

Depends on what size bulkhead you are looking for... I have a few bulkheads that fit a 1" pvc pipe. Also have a hole saw for a drill that will drill the correct sized hole for that bulkhead, somewhere in my mess of a closet where I keep all the fish stuff...

For installation, simply drill a hole in whatever it is that you are plumbing in, put the bulkhead in and attach your pipes to either side with normal PVC cement.

On the algae issue, we will just have to agree to disagree... the most effective systems that I have seen are where the cheato is tumbling in high flow, or have high flow going through the bunch of cheato, but you may have seen another that works well too. Im sure that slow flow would work, but if it is strictly to strip nutrients I would think that that would have deretius accumulate, even if it is after the skimmer because skimmers do miss stuff. Just my opinions but you know what they say about opinions...

Hope this discussion helps and doesnt just confuse you more...

 

[DamnPepShrimp]

I'd have to agree with both of you on the fact that there are always going to be opinions, whatever works for you, just do it basically. Regardless, either way you set up the sump/fuge, it is going to benefit regardless. Your not planning on running a TOTM SPS tank, so I think you'll be ok either way you go. I am in the process of setting up my fuge now, I just can't decide if I want a DSB in it, since my tank is BB. I will post pics when I get it done, I am just lazy right now to do it. I didn't use a bulkhead because I didn't want to make a trip to the LFS or order one. I used an all plastic shower drain, it's going on a plastic bucket anyway so it will work fine. I am definitely budget minded.

 

[icy1155]

You could always do a remote DSB with an 5 gal bucket that then drains into the sump...