Refugium Questions

tony varrell

New member
I am new to Refugium's. I have a few questions. Where do you buy the Cheto from? Should you have multipule types of alge in the Ref? Wich ones? DSB or not why? What type of lighting should you use? Is it possible to get this stuff off our beaches or the mangroves on key biscayne? Thanks..
 
Chaeto can be gotten from a lot of our members for free.

Everyone will give you a different opinion about how they set up their refugiums.
Some go bare bottom with rock/chaeto, some go with a dsb/rock/chaeto, some go with miracle mud/rock/chaeto, or various other combos.

Personally I go with a 4-5" dsb, rubble rock, mangrove, and chaeto.

Lighting for a fuge is nothing special.
A simple Home Depot aluminum work light reflector ($6) and a "daylight" (5-6500k) energy-saver spiral bulb is all you need for growth of the chaeto and/or mangrove pod.
 
I don't see why not.

I've never used the mud myself, but some people swear by it.
Maybe someone who runs a mud fuge will chime in with the benefits?
 
In order for a fuge to do what is 'suposed to do" it needs to be as big or bigger than your tank (that is if you are using it for trates and so forth) if you are using it for pods any size will do.

I truly believe that the fuge is a total misconception in terms of "natural filtration" recently I had the oportunity to speak about this subject with one of the guys in this hobby that knows as much as anybody I've met over the last 20 years and I was pleasently surprised when he shared the same opinion.

So IMHO if you are doing it for filtration just stick some LR down there and that's it.
If u think u need the pods then perhaps.

I understand that this is a controversial topic , but since none of us will have a fuge 3x the size of our tank then there's absolutely no reason to have one IMHO
 
I second Manny's recommendation.

Adding a sand bed will only make a more difficult detritus/nitrate sink than a bare bottomed refugium. You need to siphon it of detritus, and you will not get a nitrate reduction benefit from it because there isn't enough volume/surface area in the standard refugium, just like he said.

That's why RDSB (remote deep sand beds, preferably in buckets) are the most elegant/efficient way to reduce nitrates without having to dose anything (carbon sources).

Mangroves are terrible nitrate reducers/uptakers. They need upkeep and do not do well with little light, and do not provide much benefit. They also soak up a TON of magnesium, throwing your chemistry out of whack, and don't provide as much positives as people think. People think that they provide a lot of benefits in our tanks because they see or know that they provide a lot of benefits in the ocean/on the coasts. It's benefits are all a numbers game. They're important in large numbers, as a habitat and as a (slight) nutrient uptake mechanism. In low numbers, they're not very effective at either of those duties.

Cheato or Caulerpa are MUCH more efficient reducers of nitrate and phosphate, but of course don't look nearly as cool or as pretty as a little tree. They still cannot do their jobs though if the nitrate levels are too high, as high nitrates will kill any macroalgae.

Maybe some rocks and some cheato, with a homedepot light over it. I wouldn't even use the shop light reflectors, just get a bulb that has it's own reflector built in, so it won't get dirty in the reflector, just on the outside envelope, which is much easier to clean.

I would LOVE to have a giant fuge area (150g+ breeder, long wide, shallow with low flow), as I love seagrass displays, especially since it would be almost a local habitat, since much of Biscayne Bay are giant seagrass fields....

One can dream, right?

On the subject of mud, it's great because 1. it's a dense substrate, so it works like fine grain sand with creating anerobic zones, and 2. It absorbs phosphate because it's soil/mud, with high iron concentrations in it, which helps bind phosphate. That being said I'm not a fan at all of it, since you will quickly lose the phosphate binder benefit (it must be changed, much like how you've got to change out GFO media to keep it working), and I'm not a fan of it acting as a denitrating sand bed, at least in 95% of the cases where it's used, because it's being used in waaaay too small an area to provide effective denitration, AND the fact that DSBs get gross in 99% of the cases, and have to be changed out eventually, as they stop working, and frequently leach back nutrients. This will happen especially quickly with smaller sandbeds, like the type you find in a split-chamber sump/refugium.

Shallow sand beds are fine if you want microfauna, but I wouldn't do a DSB or mud refugium.

Cheers
 
This is a controversial issue, since manny :D have failed with their refugiums to control nitrates. DSB work only if they are drained and cleaned. Mangroves are for show. Chaeto works very well with slow flow and high lighting. I dont know who's idea was to use the cheap home depot lights, but manny :D people have failed to understand you need a metal halide to rapidly grow chaeto.
This is my favorite thread and you can read it for more info :)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=12507911#post12507911
 
If the cheap HD lights can't grow chaeto could you explain this?

Fuge_Light_Comparison.jpg


This was only 2.5 weeks worth of growth with one of those cheap HD lights.

Two weeks after that and the fuge was completely filled and had to be harvested.
 
Thats not a cheap light !!!
Ok thats a at least a 65 watt fluorescent :D your chaeto growth is fine but don't think is anything phenomenal :)
I would say you have a nice setup and the fuge works !
Also looks like you have low flow throe the chaeto.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12507955#post12507955 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Young Frankenstein
I dont know who's idea was to use the cheap home depot lights, but manny :D people have failed to understand you need a metal halide to rapidly grow chaeto.


It isn't a metal halide and I think most would consider it a cheap light, especially if we are comparing to MH's.
 
Yea I've seen many people use that light with success (I succeded in having that light grow a tiny bit of cheato, but grow more Pocillapora on EVERY SURFACE UNDERNEATH MY TANK THAT HAD WATER TOUCHING IT including inside my skimmer body, inside my clear plumbing, and all over my sump. Bastards.)

I've also seen people use standard ended compact fluorescent flood lights with great success (see melevsreef.com ).

Just like anything else in this hobby.... Everyone does something different, some succeed, and some fail. And when someone does something and it works, a million people will do the same and fail, or just get different results. That's the beast of this hobby.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12508247#post12508247 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by coralfragger101
20 gal tank with the following HD light.

Fuge_Light.jpg



Specs from Lights of America website:

Light.jpg

i used the same light and had the same results as coralfragger, including low flow and i never had any issues with trates or algae in my display tank
 
Great thread people, I learned as much as I think I needed for my upgrade, with out having to ask, thanks!!
 
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