refugiums

[gwaco]

thanks for the read daddy jax . i can agree with most of what randy says in the article - but - the thing that is not taken into account in the article is the formation line . when we add food or whatever may be a source of phosphate , the residence in the tank get first grabs at it . bacteria will grab it first , followed by the micro algae that is giving you problems , being absorbed by the sandbed (if you have one ) and being pulled out by skimming , and this before it hits your fuge . so if theres enough phosphate to still grow macro in your fuge you really have a phosphate problem !
i feel as you do , that skimming can be the most effective way of reducing phosphates ,but most don't have a skimmer big enough or set up properly to do it .
i guess i'll just never understand the pod thing !

 

[triggerfish1976]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11314850#post11314850 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by DaddyJax
Here is some great info on macroalgae and Phosphates in the aquarium http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

The growth and removal of macro is the key to a successful fuge in using it for removal of organic and inorganic PO4. The article also goes into the bacteria consumption of PO4 along with mechanical means of removal.

He also notes the importance of keeping a large refugium or multiple large refugiums.

 

[DaddyJax]

Pods eat. More pods, more consumption. It is like having a ton of filter feeders for rocks. Most of the setups that I have done will have the fuge after the filter sock and before the skimmer. The "Cleanup crew" is there to keep the rocks and glass relatively clean.

 

[DaddyJax]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11316105#post11316105 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by triggerfish1976
He also notes the importance of keeping a large refugium or multiple large refugiums.

Yup, and this is true for most macro algae(except cheato).
The point for my side is that Macro and a proper fuge setup is very benificial and can sufficeintly remove PO4 and be a strong source of filtration. If my memory serves me correctly Steve Tyree only uses natural filtration with no skimmer or socks!

 

[killagoby]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11312085#post11312085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gwaco
quote//.. I am also curious if everyone who has posted thus far has actually noticed a significant decline in their phosphates and nitrates since they started running a refugium and can actually trace it to the refugium as being the main source of nutrient removal

but you will see a reduction ! but it will be short term until the leaching starts ! plants and algae are constantly leaching phosphates - its just what they do ! there are no stop switches in bacteria and algae , they will continue to pull phosphates and leach phosphates , and release it all back into the system when they die .

Huh?

 

[killagoby]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11312085#post11312085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gwaco
quote//.. I am also curious if everyone who has posted thus far has actually noticed a significant decline in their phosphates and nitrates since they started running a refugium and can actually trace it to the refugium as being the main source of nutrient removal

but you will see a reduction ! but it will be short term until the leaching starts ! plants and algae are constantly leaching phosphates - its just what they do ! there are no stop switches in bacteria and algae , they will continue to pull phosphates and leach phosphates , and release it all back into the system when they die .

You know for a fact for this to be true? Even with pruning the algae?

BTW- Why are your SPS's brown?

 

[mflamb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11312085#post11312085 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gwaco
quote//but you will see a reduction ! but it will be short term until the leaching starts ! plants and algae are constantly leaching phosphates - its just what they do ! there are no stop switches in bacteria and algae , they will continue to pull phosphates and leach phosphates , and release it all back into the system when they die .

I'm going to have to challange your "science" here. Living, growing algae removes phosphates from the water to use in it's growth. Living, growing algae does not leach phosphates back into the water column. If the algae is regularly harvested and has a constant supply of food, CO2, and light, and is not harmed chemically or physically, it will continue to consume phosphates.

 

[killagoby]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11319276#post11319276 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mflamb
I'm going to have to challange your "science" here. Living, growing algae removes phosphates from the water to use in it's growth. Living, growing algae does not leach phosphates back into the water column. If the algae is regularly harvested and has a constant supply of food, CO2, and light, and is not harmed chemically or physically, it will continue to consume phosphates.

EXACTLY!

I still want to know why his SPS's are brown.

 

[gwaco]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11320903#post11320903 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by killagoby
EXACTLY!

I still want to know why his SPS's are brown.

sorry i've been busy last couple of days .
but first i must address this - killagoby , since you seem to want to troll on this board and question my abilities for keeping corals due to a tag line i put in , maybe i should question your fish keeping practices with your user name KILL A GOBY ! , real fair huh ! secondly i have shipped corals acrossed the u.s. and have not had a complaint about the colors of the corals i have shipped ! also many on this board probably have a piece of my corals in their tanks , and i have not heard any complaints ! so maybe you should do alittle research before you put your foot in your mouth ! by the way according your tag line you are running a fuge and a phosban reactor , guess your fuge doesn't work as well as you thought .

 

[gwaco]

now on to more important things !
all plants leak , they have to inorder grow bacterial populations to convert nitrogen and migrate nutrients or they will die !
they can leak it thru the leaves or the root system.
so can you tell me how growing plants in a fuge will reduce the nutrients so the algae can't grow ?
its more like the plants are only inhibiting the algae growth with chemical warfare .
think about this for a minute , know one would disagree that there is chemical warfare that goes on between corals correct?
soft corals send out different chemicals to stunt or kill stoney corals , well if plants didn't do this they would be smothered by algae in no time and die . so yes they leak a multitued of chemicals besides phosphourus .

 

[killagoby]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11329565#post11329565 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gwaco
sorry i've been busy last couple of days .
but first i must address this - killagoby , since you seem to want to troll on this board and question my abilities for keeping corals due to a tag line i put in , maybe i should question your fish keeping practices with your user name KILL A GOBY ! , real fair huh ! secondly i have shipped corals acrossed the u.s. and have not had a complaint about the colors of the corals i have shipped ! also many on this board probably have a piece of my corals in their tanks , and i have not heard any complaints ! so maybe you should do alittle research before you put your foot in your mouth !

I'll give you my address so you can ship me some frags. BTW, it's Killa-Goby. Like killer goby. Like the baddest fish in my tank. lol

 

[gwaco]

sure ! rotflmao!

 

[Kittikity]

What was that about putting it in ro water before feeding it to the fish? Can I do that with my chaeto, let it leak out what it needs to, and then put it back in my refugium?

 

[gwaco]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11330006#post11330006 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Kittikity
What was that about putting it in ro water before feeding it to the fish? Can I do that with my chaeto, let it leak out what it needs to, and then put it back in my refugium?

short and simple - no .
you'll end up with dieing cheato ! h.t.h.

 

[mflamb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11329661#post11329661 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gwaco
now on to more important things !
all plants leak , they have to inorder grow bacterial populations to convert nitrogen and migrate nutrients or they will die !
they can leak it thru the leaves or the root system.
so can you tell me how growing plants in a fuge will reduce the nutrients so the algae can't grow ?
its more like the plants are only inhibiting the algae growth with chemical warfare .
think about this for a minute , know one would disagree that there is chemical warfare that goes on between corals correct?
soft corals send out different chemicals to stunt or kill stoney corals , well if plants didn't do this they would be smothered by algae in no time and die . so yes they leak a multitued of chemicals besides phosphourus .

After 5 years of college studying biology, I have never heard of the things that you say about plants "leaking". Do you have any supporting documents for your science?

 

[gwaco]

not to be a pompus a.h. here but why don't you provide something that says my claims aren;t true ?
that is the problem with so many in this hobby - they want everything handed to them on a silver platter or a book so they don't have to work at it !
but i will say - try googling - bacteria in plants , leaching of plants , things like that .
again , sorry , but when i have to prove the "science" of it as compared to the" i wrote a book so take my word as gospel , i'm an expert don't question me "
i get alittle ticked ..........

 

[mflamb]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11330888#post11330888 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by gwaco
not to be a pompus a.h. here but why don't you provide something that says my claims aren;t true ?
that is the problem with so many in this hobby - they want everything handed to them on a silver platter or a book so they don't have to work at it !
but i will say - try googling - bacteria in plants , leaching of plants , things like that .
again , sorry , but when i have to prove the "science" of it as compared to the" i wrote a book so take my word as gospel , i'm an expert don't question me "
i get alittle ticked ..........

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: That's absolutely hilarious!!! You make claims without proof, and then say prove me wrong. Oh and the "silver platter", that's even funnier. The whole idea of these forums is sharing information. But since your way up there keeping your silver platter info all to yourself, I won't bother you with those requests anymore. To the others reading this, beware of "I don't have to prove my science" scientists.

 

[gwaco]

QUOTE/(beware of "I don't have to prove my science" scientists.)
guess you just assume that i am scientist , the same way i assume you don't have a clue in plant biology !
yeah its funny , especially when i can prove a point that many hobbyist are to lazy to work at it !
wonder where you were during them 5 years of biology !:smokin:

 

[MikeBrke]

beware of "I don't have to prove my science" scientists.

Now that is a good tip! As a scientist, it is your job to explain the information you are releasing and when asked for references, provide them! We should not have to do this for you.

 

[mflamb]

Thank you Mike.