Regal angel from LA diver den

Regal angel from LA diver den

  • Add straught to DT

    Votes: 30 49.2%
  • Put in QT 1st

    Votes: 31 50.8%

  • Total voters
    61
I'm extremely surprised by the number of people recommending against QTing. While I realize many do not practice what they preach, I figured at least most would recommend QT.

This place never ceases to amaze me.

Me either. Everyone loses fish occasionally. Of course, beginners more than most. That's all understandable. Losing fish because it wasn't in QT has no reasoning that I can see. Even the newest hobbyist is advised at every turn to QT. maybe some people just think a QT is a lot of work or expensive---it's neither. But, this conversation has been going on for all of the 30+ years I've been keeping SW fish; and years with FW fish before that. I wonder how many people have given up this hobby as a direct result of not using a QT? Plenty.
 
Me either. Everyone loses fish occasionally. Of course, beginners more than most. That's all understandable. Losing fish because it wasn't in QT has no reasoning that I can see. Even the newest hobbyist is advised at every turn to QT. maybe some people just think a QT is a lot of work or expensive---it's neither. But, this conversation has been going on for all of the 30+ years I've been keeping SW fish; and years with FW fish before that. I wonder how many people have given up this hobby as a direct result of not using a QT? Plenty.

WOW. You love this subject, I can tell. I have never QT'd anything of mine. Never lost a fish because of it either. And I don't care if you run red lights in your town....Not apples to apples comparison. If people don't want to QT their fish, why is it that you feel the need to belittle them??!! Not for you to say, its your OPINION that everything should be QT, thats all. Doesn't mean I'm going to lose everything in my tank either, just by throwing in a fish. As long as your other subjects are healthy, they will be fine. The fish who are ill and on the iffy side will more than likely get ill, this also does not mean that you can't help cure this illness also.......Continue all......Its your choice whether to QT or not. Its an opinion of the others as to what they would do. Do not let them kick you in the butt and belittle you for not QTing your livestock. Its a choice. Its your tank.
 
I got a buddy who has a 280g with 4 vlamingi(2x10"). 1 hippo tang, 2 yellow tang, 1 sailfin, 1 purple tang, 1 blonde naso, 1 clown, and a couple of other small fish. he doesnt QT and all his fish are okay(for now). the sailfin, purple and blonde naso, he added within the last month.

i got some videos, but its not edited yet.

his last 200g, he never QT'd also. he had an ich outbreak and nearly wiped out his entire livestock. he was about ready to quit after that incident.

as for me, you couldnt pay me to put a non-QT fish in my DT...
 
I'm a beginner I lost my first 2 fish to ick. I was glad it happened in the 20 gallon quarantine and not in my 180 gallon display. I'm glad I quarantine my fish and the 20 gallon is easier to clean than the 180. I also believe that this is a free country and you can do what you like. In the end it's your money....
 
I will QT some "strong" and hardy fish such as naso tangs or emperor angels but frogile and vulnerable fish like the regal angel or some butterflies may perish because of stress and chemicals used during the QT.
 
WOW. You love this subject, I can tell. I have never QT'd anything of mine. Never lost a fish because of it either. And I don't care if you run red lights in your town....Not apples to apples comparison. If people don't want to QT their fish, why is it that you feel the need to belittle them??!! Not for you to say, its your OPINION that everything should be QT, thats all. Doesn't mean I'm going to lose everything in my tank either, just by throwing in a fish. As long as your other subjects are healthy, they will be fine. The fish who are ill and on the iffy side will more than likely get ill, this also does not mean that you can't help cure this illness also.......Continue all......Its your choice whether to QT or not. Its an opinion of the others as to what they would do. Do not let them kick you in the butt and belittle you for not QTing your livestock. Its a choice. Its your tank.

I'll admit to being quite aggressive on this topic; coincidentally, the two posts following the above quote (#23 & #24) are the reason why. I have no problem at all with what people decide to do with their fish. Everything on this forum is opinion and experience; nothing more, nothing less. I do disagree with people who encourage others not to QT (even by implication); not with sources, but simply using their individual experience as a reason not to. It isn't a reason; it is an isolated, anecdotal experience. If someone says '' I choose not to QT because I think the risk is small compared to the effort". Fine, that is a reason. they will get no argument from me. Beginners, looking for direction, if they are like me, are generally going to take the easier path when presented with options. I do a lot of things that are unconventional and quite risky; but would never suggest others do the same. I have said many times, that I do not know any reference material or any other hobbyist (whose opinion I would follow) who doesn't say "QT" everything. I don't mean to "belittle" anyone; but think there is a big difference between all the combined expert wisdom (certainly not referring to me) in the hobby and individual accounts of possible exceptions to that wisdom.
 
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I will QT some "strong" and hardy fish such as naso tangs or emperor angels but frogile and vulnerable fish like the regal angel or some butterflies may perish because of stress and chemicals used during the QT.

People who use chemicals in QT (like me) are in the minority. Most QT tanks are just a place for fish to rest, begin feeding and acclimate without competition or stress. And, of course, to observe the fish. BTW, you would have a hard time finding any fish that hadn't already been treated with chemicals. Most collectors, shippers, wholesalers, online dealers, and many LFS; routinely use copper and other meds.
 
I have heard put the regal straight in the DT is best and I have heard put him it the QT 1st like I do all my fish.


http://nyaquatic.wordpress.com/

Regal angels have to be one of the most heartbreaking of all marine animals.

They are stunning, but if handled improperly, doomed to die.

Here are a few key points:

Yellow belly vs blue/grey belly-Yellow belly regal angels come from the Red Sea, Kenya, Sumatra. Blue/grey belly regals come from Indonesia and Philipines. The yellow belly ones are much brighter colored, and are typically about twice the price. They are equal in terms of hardiness.
How to get them eating-This is the first big hurdle to overcome. Your best bet is to have them in a tank with live rock to graze on. They cannot be in a tank with aggressive eaters who will intimidate them. Best foods to start with are fresh clams on the 1/2 shell and spirulina flakes if you have good water flow.
QT or not QT?-While it is always best to QT if possible, regal angels need to be handled delicately. They will not do well in a sterile, medicated QT tank. If you have a non-medicated QT tank with live rock, figure 30 gal min, then great. Otherwise, you are left with 2 poor choices-don't QT and risk your DT, or QT and risk your regal. Tankmates-Regal angels need to be in a tank with very docile tankmates-small tangs, anthias, gobies, etc. They will not typically do well in a tank full of angels with whom they would need to compete with for food.
Size-Size does matter. With regals, the smaller the better. They acclimate much easier.
 
That's what I'm talking about it's almost half and half 19 to 23.I'm not looking for the easy way out.I had a regal once before and it died.I put him in my QT and got him eating and then put him in the DT and he never ate again.I should have let eat longer in my QT longer than I should.So it dying was my error.Shortly after that I started reading some said and straight to the DT and some say QT always.That why I asked the question.
 
That's what I'm talking about it's almost half and half 19 to 23.I'm not looking for the easy way out.I had a regal once before and it died.I put him in my QT and got him eating and then put him in the DT and he never ate again.I should have let eat longer in my QT longer than I should.So it dying was my error.Shortly after that I started reading some said and straight to the DT and some say QT always.That why I asked the question.

Probably at least half of the Regals imported don't make it, regardless. Its getting better, though. The source is the key, IMO. I would only get this fish from DD, LA, BZ, or another very reputable dealer.....and one that has a guarantee! (Maybe not a reason to buy a fish, but it doesn't hurt.)
Regardless of what you do; I sure hope you don't make a decision based on such a "poll".
 
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IF IT WERE ME - straight to the DT the regal would go. Now I say this only because its from DD. Divers Den is the best in the business. Sure 2 weeks might not be the ideal amount of time in QT with them but of the thousands and thousands of fish sold and numerous posts here about DD fish I have only read 1 case where the fish someone received from DD was diseased. Even in that post a fish was purchased a couple weeks earlier so the parasite coming in on a DD fish was questionable.

Now do I quarantine, yes and no. 80% of my fish have come from Divers Den. All the DD fish went straight to display. I trust their quarantine efforts. I guarantee they do a better job not only making sure fish are disease free but also getting them accustomed to captive life then almost any hobbyist here on the forums. Sure its possible that a fish could come in diseased from DD but the chances are probably 100 to 1 and I take that bet. IMO I see no reason to double quarantine, further stressing the fish.

The other fish I received I got from local reefers. They have all went straight into the DT as well. However before taking the fish home I do ask history. When was the last fish introduced to the system? How long has it been since any diseases in the tank? How long have you had the fish? etc, etc. Sure they could lie to me but these are people I have dealt with on other occasions and they haven't steered me wrong yet.

A few months back I did get a trio of Jawfish in from a company in Florida. They do not quarantine their fish, just kept them in water with copper like most LFS's. The Jawfish were put into a quarantine tank and 2 of the 3 died overnight. The 3rd one was kept in quarantine for 2 months, no meds and just observation.

Years ago I did lose a whole tank to a ich outbreak so I do know the importance of quarantine. However, this time around I preferred to minimize my risk>quarantine everything.

So for me;
if its from DD - straight to DT, rolling the dice
From another established system, not questionable - straight to DT
From another established system, questionable - QT for 8 weeks
From any other retailer other than DD - QT for 8 weeks

btw Divers Den fish are the most vibrant, healthy, eating, active and best looking fish I have ever seen or purchased. The only disease I have had in my current setup was lymphocystis on my Angel and there is nothing DD could have done about that.

You have 2 choices IMO

Get the Regal into as natural of a environment as possible and roll the dice that there is a slim chance it could introduce disease to your DT

Or

Quarantine the fish for 8 weeks and hope it lives then introduce it into the display.

From what I have seen Regals do not do well in QT, they need to graze.

Good luck!
 
It seems a large portion of the argument against quarantining relies on the quarantine being a stressful environment compared to the display tank. I'd argue quite the opposite, the fish isn't having to compete for food or territory. My quarantine has been set up just as long as my main tank and is in a quiet room, it also has plenty of live rock, sand and a big conch shell for fish to hide in. I'd argue that this is a much less stressful environment than a brightly lit reef tank with numerous veteran fish in a busy living room.

Quarantine tanks don't have to be sterile afterthoughts that are set up while the fish is waiting in the bag. :)
 
qt, qt, qt, always, always, always...we spend a lot on our livestock...why risk contaminating your entire tank? Better to be safe than sorry...Mr Tusk had it so correct with his running a red light analogy...you might have success dropping your fish directly into your dt- but 1 day...and it might be months or years from now...real bad things are going to happen to your fish...so be safe and qt...
 
It seems a large portion of the argument against quarantining relies on the quarantine being a stressful environment compared to the display tank. I'd argue quite the opposite, the fish isn't having to compete for food or territory. My quarantine has been set up just as long as my main tank and is in a quiet room, it also has plenty of live rock, sand and a big conch shell for fish to hide in. I'd argue that this is a much less stressful environment than a brightly lit reef tank with numerous veteran fish in a busy living room.

Quarantine tanks don't have to be sterile afterthoughts that are set up while the fish is waiting in the bag. :)

Well put. I think the term "stress" has become the most over-used word in our hobby. (Watch out, I'm getting gabby) Here's how I see the situation for the Regal Angel in the thread.

This fish has spent his entire life on a reef, avoiding being eaten is a huge part of his life. He is captured by a diver, transferred to the boats holding container, put in a small container to be closely examined, then to the dock. He is probably moved several times before being bagged and packed for shipment to the LA facility in Calif. Then he is acclimated and selected for DD in Wisc, he is bagged and shipped again, QT'd & acclimated to DD facilities. he has probably been moved to specimen containers a few times, to make sure he meets DD standards and he has undoubtedly been treated with copper on much of this trip. he then spends some time at DD, bagged & shipped again to the customer.

At this point, is this fish really going to be stressed more by a quiet DT than a tank full of acclimated fish rushing all over and challenging him at every opportunity? I doubt it. My QT is different than MCCOOL's ; but the intent is the same. there are plenty of pvc pieces for him to hide in, plenty of room, no completion for food, no little kids poking fingers, subdued lighting, etc.

djkms makes a good point about the regal's need to graze and I think this applies to lots of fish. Strips of nori work well, but I prefer softened romaine or turnip greens in DT. They last a few days and fish seem to like the tougher veggies. When I was acclimating a lot of fish after moving; I kept a small tank with limestone chunks . It had a desk lamp lighting it 24/7. Algae grows very fast this way and I'd just put in rocks for grazing.

I do use copper & a de-wormer, as a prophylactic treatment in DT, but don't push it, simply because its controversial. I make sure fish are eating well before starting copper and, if feeding habits change, remove the Cupramine with Cuprisorb and start over. I have not had to do this often. I've been following this basic procedure for years, keep a lot of fish, and have not seen a parasite in any of my DTs since starting this method. Personally, I don't feel that Cupramine is nearly as "stressful" as many people do. Again, this is just my experience & opinion. No fish goes into my Dts without being treated; I do lower copper levels for dwarf angels and a few others. I also have a good way of cycling a QT, easy & foolproof. If you want it, just ask---I've posted it several times.
 
I treat every fish with cupramine and prazipro, as well. I've never noticed any fish have adverse reactions to either treatment. although admittedly I've never owned/qt'd an angelfish, I certainly wouldn't add one to my tank without qt.
 
i think where most people go wrone and loose fish in QT is it is not actually a poroper QT, they fill it with water and then add the fish right away, of course the fish is going to die.

It is important to have a correct QT set up with proper bio filtration. I have a 30 gal QT set up all the time had 15-20lbs of LR, 36W UV, deltec MCE600 HOB skimmer and a tunze 6045. lighting is 6 x 24W so i can also QT corals etc.

I do not treat with copper but with hypo, just my preference, and usually do not treat unless i see symptoms. I QT between 6-12 weeks. Also after 2 weeks i will treat with prazi even if i see no symptoms, why 2 weeks wait? I find prazzi can effect diet so when the fish is finicky like regal etc i dont want to stop it eating right away.

One thing i find amazing is inthe achilles primer most people say not to QT, too much risk. I am QT'ing a achilles ATM in the above mentioned set up, so far so good.
 
I guess the bottom line is it is your tank do what you want.If you want to put your fish in a QT then do it.If you want to add the fish straight to DT then do it.It is your tank and your money.Looks like more people say DT now
 
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