Relationship Between Phosphate Reduction and Zoanthids

[brianspider]

A few weeks ago I had some cyano issues. I tried some Kent Marine Phosphate Sponge that I heard some people had success with, and overnight my zoas withered and looked on their way to death. I immediately removed the sponge and today my zoas are back growing and have almost made a full recovery. I tried searching for some information on how phosphate reduction can affect soft corals, but have had little success.

I am still looking to reduce my phosphates today, but am afraid to do so due to the effects I've seen it have on my zoas previously. Any insight on this relationship and/or how phosphate reduction can be successfully achieved in a tank with zoas and other softies?

 

[WillM]

I was looking into phosphates recently and found this article by Randy that has a lot of good info. I seem to remember something about some types of phosphate removers being aluminum based which can irritate your corals:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

I don't know if Kent's was one of them or not, but that might be it.

 

[brianspider]

I was looking into phosphates recently and found this article by Randy that has a lot of good info. I seem to remember something about some types of phosphate removers being aluminum based which can irritate your corals:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

I don't know if Kent's was one of them or not, but that might be it.

I'll look into the article, than you for the link.

As far as the Kent product, it explicitly stated on the packaging that it would not introduce aluminum into the aquarium so I'm not sure that was the issue.

 

[zoafarm]

I had the same issue with Poly Filter. I removed it, cut it in half, and put it back. Everything seemed to correct itself. About 5 days later I added the other half, and didn't have a problem. I read similar things when people add too much GFO.

 

[A. Grandis]

Tagging along...

Grandis.

 

[bebereef]

I read similar things when people add too much GFO.

I may fit in that category!:sad1:

 

[davidadelp]

So is it a good idea or bad idea to run Carbon and GFO on a tank with alot of Zoas? I intend to have a zoa, LPS and softie domanated tank

 

[tadeo47]

I think the issue here is the rate in which phosphates are removed. if they are being removed too fast it can shock the zoas. do you mind telling us what level of phosphates did you start up with? and i do think its a good idea to run carbon and gfo on a zoa tank.

 

[bebereef]

I think the issue here is the rate in which phosphates are removed. if they are being removed too fast it can shock the zoas. do you mind telling us what level of phosphates did you start up with? and i do think its a good idea to run carbon and gfo on a zoa tank.

+1 on that!

 

[MUCHO REEF]

A few weeks ago I had some cyano issues. I tried some Kent Marine Phosphate Sponge that I heard some people had success with, and overnight my zoas withered and looked on their way to death. I immediately removed the sponge and today my zoas are back growing and have almost made a full recovery. I tried searching for some information on how phosphate reduction can affect soft corals, but have had little success.

I am still looking to reduce my phosphates today, but am afraid to do so due to the effects I've seen it have on my zoas previously. Any insight on this relationship and/or how phosphate reduction can be successfully achieved in a tank with zoas and other softies?

This thread died much much too soon. It has great potential to be a very informative and helpful thread to many reefers as marginal phosphates aren't bad and zero should never be a target. I have a great article to share on this and why. I will go search for it, it's very old indeed. The link provided above is just loaded with insightful info also.

Personally, before I ever try to get rid of something, I first try to isolate the source of what it is I'm trying to remove.


Brian, did the thread help to resolve your problem?

How are things looking now?

What corrections did you make and how?

What was the source of your excessive phosphates?


I really hope you got it under control and things are looking great for you. Hope to hear from you soon sir. Good luck.

MUCHO REEF

 

[650-IS350]

interesting thread.

 

[modernREEF]

Would love to see the article on not reducing phosphate to zero.

I also think that the OP's problem stems from rapid phosphate removal.

 

[650-IS350]

agreed on rapid removal probably cause the shock to the coral.

 

[Peter Eichler]

The problem here had very little to do with phosphates being removed, rapidly or not. Aluminum oxide was well known to stress soft corals and zoanthids in particular.

I don't care what Kent says on their packaging (they and most other supplement companies make a lot of false and hopeful claims) aluminum oxide will release aluminum and particles that contain aluminum into the aquarium, and that seems to be the stressor when using aluminum oxide based phosphate sponges. For that reason I suggest staying away from it altogether in reef aquariums and feel GFO is a much better media if you need to lower phosphates.

 

[SantaMonica]

I've seen GFO, zeo, vodka, and I guess today... polyfilters... all hurt softies. I don't think it's the rate of P removal, it's how low the P goes.

Because these techniques use abiotic means, they can reduce the P to below-natural levels. Biotic means, such as macroalgae, cannot reduce P to below-natural levels, however; P can only get as low as natural reef levels.

 

[Reef Frog]

I don't think it's the rate of P removal, it's how low the P goes.

GFO Reactor on a Timer?
It seems you could potentially control both factors with the GFO reactor on a timer or a well thought out schedule on a controller. But I've never seen this discussed in a forum but might prove to be an interesting experiment.

Seems logical to me especially if it was monitored carefully with good test kits & careful observation. Perhaps 4 hours per day of OFF time spread over X off periods per day would be beneficial for Zoas, Ricordia etc. but still keep levels low enough to keep pest micro algaes in check for example. This could be done slowly over time by switching the GFO (or carbon) reactors OFF for a 10 or 15 minute increment each day then test, observe & adjust.

When I added a GFO reactor & carbon to deal with an algae outbreak in my 65g, I definitely noticed a strong cause & effect relationship when quickly dropping my PO4 to low levels & keeping it there. I too had the often reported near cessation of growth for mushrooms, rics & most zoas. Plus their polyp extension & therefore attractiveness were greatly reduced. But stony coral growth & health took off. So I'm wondering if PO4 management with a timer on GFO would be a good tool to find this theoretical equilibrium?

 

[SantaMonica]

That would generate strong P cycles. Good question if it would benefit all.

 

[bebereef]

Very interesting Reef Frog.

 

[Reef Frog]

It would be interesting to know exactly how and WHEN Po4 is released into the water column. Is it dependent on or influenced by lighting cycles or is it produced at a constant rate (assuming input is fairly constant). I can't help but speculate that the right limited shot of PO4 in a low nutrient tank could possibly perk up the zoa & Ricordia action in a LPS/SPS reef while not ****ing off the algae gods too much.

 

[HurricaneCaleb]

I was running GFO and carbon in the same reactor to help with algae, zoas did not react well to the change. Someone recommended only carbon so I have been going with that for about a month- algae is worse and no extension or opening. Would y'all recommend running only GFO for a month or take it all out?