If owning a reef tank negatively impacts the ocean, then how can any reef keeping be "responsible". Some reef tanks minimize reef impact by using only tank raised livestock. How about live rock? How about CO2 and acid rain from the electricity for the lights and pumps. What about the salt contamination from water changes? What is "responsible" reef keeping?
Responsible Reefkeeping
- Thread starter samtheman
- Start date
Some applicable meanings of the word "responsible" from the American Heritage Dictionary:
+Involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority: a responsible position within the firm.
+Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own and therefore answerable for one's behavior.
+Based on or characterized by good judgment or sound thinking: responsible journalism.
How people define "responsible reefkeeping" will vary from person to person based on their own values. Some people are concerned with environmental impact, others are concerned with the proper treatement of captive animals.
As for the use of electricity, etc, it is a bit of a stretch, no? It's like I said that killing people is wrong, and you said "Well if it's so bad to hurt people, then what about criticizing people? That hurts their feelings and that harms them too, right?"
Being responsible means being aware of the impacts of your actions, and avoiding actions that have too many negative consequences.
+Involving personal accountability or ability to act without guidance or superior authority: a responsible position within the firm.
+Able to make moral or rational decisions on one's own and therefore answerable for one's behavior.
+Based on or characterized by good judgment or sound thinking: responsible journalism.
How people define "responsible reefkeeping" will vary from person to person based on their own values. Some people are concerned with environmental impact, others are concerned with the proper treatement of captive animals.
As for the use of electricity, etc, it is a bit of a stretch, no? It's like I said that killing people is wrong, and you said "Well if it's so bad to hurt people, then what about criticizing people? That hurts their feelings and that harms them too, right?"
Being responsible means being aware of the impacts of your actions, and avoiding actions that have too many negative consequences.
Too many negative impacts? How do you define that. Can I do more damage to the environment, then you, just because my defination is different.
You don't believe that oil, garbage, fertilizer, heat, development and population are hurting the reefs. One way to reduce that impact is to not waste money on high cost reef toys. Why drive a gas saving car, so you can burn several hundreds of dollars of coal fired power a month, on your aquarium. How is that responsible?
I am in the hobby, but should I be, if I am "responsible"?
You don't believe that oil, garbage, fertilizer, heat, development and population are hurting the reefs. One way to reduce that impact is to not waste money on high cost reef toys. Why drive a gas saving car, so you can burn several hundreds of dollars of coal fired power a month, on your aquarium. How is that responsible?
I am in the hobby, but should I be, if I am "responsible"?
members would not feel they had to protect the natural reef if they didn't see the beauty of its inhabitance in there tanks at home. Also ,in the bleak possiblitiy that all the worlds reefs go extinct we should have some captive individuals left that we can possibly someday reintroduce into the wild.
Shoestring Reefer
New member
Driving a car has negative impacts on the environment.
but...
There is still such a thing as responsible driving.
You're taking a too-narrow definition of the term "responsible".
but...
There is still such a thing as responsible driving.
You're taking a too-narrow definition of the term "responsible".
If your deffinition of responsible reefkeeping is to have no negative environmental impact than why is useing your computer ok when you use the same type of reasoning. You need to take a step back take a deep breath and relax a little. This will be my last post because if you don't accept what i have typed (said) it is hopeless and this thread will never end.
Samala
New member
There are ways to be involved in anything, including breathing and normal living, that lessen your impact (or footprint) on natural resources.
I think your emphasis that everyone does things in the worst possible way isnt realistic. Not everyone gets their energy from coal, or hydroelectric, or solar or wind resources. Likewise not everyone uses reef "toys" or other excesses in their hobby.
I'm confused as to what you wanted from the responses to this thread Sam. Were you looking for ways to proactively lessen your impact? Something else? Or are you questioning the existence of this forum? It was originally intended to house and foster discussions on how we can be more responsible stewards of our environment through the hobby of reefkeeping. Not to philosophically question the responsibility of actually keeping reefs.
>Sarah
I think your emphasis that everyone does things in the worst possible way isnt realistic. Not everyone gets their energy from coal, or hydroelectric, or solar or wind resources. Likewise not everyone uses reef "toys" or other excesses in their hobby.
I'm confused as to what you wanted from the responses to this thread Sam. Were you looking for ways to proactively lessen your impact? Something else? Or are you questioning the existence of this forum? It was originally intended to house and foster discussions on how we can be more responsible stewards of our environment through the hobby of reefkeeping. Not to philosophically question the responsibility of actually keeping reefs.
>Sarah
If you don't like the answers other people give you, why bother asking the question in the first place? As it stands, you asked a pretty open ended question for which and answers are very subjective. There is no "one" answer, and any answers will be different based on different peoples own perspectives. If you don't like those answers that don't fit your perspective, or people aksing you questions to try and ascertain just what your looking for, there is no reason to have an attitude about it.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
walking softly on the earth???
walking softly on the earth???
If owning a reef tank negatively impacts the ocean, then how can any reef keeping be "responsible".
"Some reef tanks minimize reef impact by using only tank raised livestock. "
Some reeftanks? Any public aquariums among them?
What of the fisherfolk put out of work by an end to wildcaught livestock? Would they go quietly? Would you?
This may save some from feeling guilty but it doesn't save reefs.
"How about live rock?"
Replacing dead coral with cement products???
Making cement is not benign process.
"How about CO2 and acid rain from the electricity for the lights and pumps?"
You mean as in Christmas tree lights and shopping malls?
"What about the salt contamination from water changes? What is "responsible" reef keeping?"
All reaches the sea....if its just salt water...send it down the curb drain.
The birth of a single American baby kicks off a lifetime of excess consumption that few on earth can match....especially those of us in the middle and upper classes.
We tread heavily on the world as much as we can and then a few play Hamlet and wonder aloud of the impact.
The damage caused by this fact of demography is universal and reaches into and affect the entire world.
We are America and claim proprietary rights to anything of value...anything we can pay for.
Of a thousands heavy impacts we drive, support and sustain, reefkeeping is a pretty lightweight one.
If its therefore the principal of treading lightly on the earth you mean...then by all means, lets seperate that from the notion of concern for the tropical worlds coral reefs. Places few reefers have ever seen or understood. Places populated by people few reefers have ever met or understood.
If you asked the people who live on the reefs you want to save...what do you think they would say?
If you want to save their reefs in spite of them and without them...then what are the chances of success?
Can Japanese eco-folks come here and save our reefs in the Florida Keys without our serious and central involvement?
Seperating well intentioned environmental musings from its social/cultural setting is very 'American...authoritarian and patronizing. Its also ineffective.
Give reefs value. Let local people work...involve them...Buy wildcaught...and support teaching better management and training of people to protect their own heritage. Support businesses that are friendly enough and fair enough to the locals to influence their behavior for the better.
Don't run away. Stay and put your consumerism behind the good guys....though few they may be.
Steve
walking softly on the earth???
If owning a reef tank negatively impacts the ocean, then how can any reef keeping be "responsible".
"Some reef tanks minimize reef impact by using only tank raised livestock. "
Some reeftanks? Any public aquariums among them?
What of the fisherfolk put out of work by an end to wildcaught livestock? Would they go quietly? Would you?
This may save some from feeling guilty but it doesn't save reefs.
"How about live rock?"
Replacing dead coral with cement products???
Making cement is not benign process.
"How about CO2 and acid rain from the electricity for the lights and pumps?"
You mean as in Christmas tree lights and shopping malls?
"What about the salt contamination from water changes? What is "responsible" reef keeping?"
All reaches the sea....if its just salt water...send it down the curb drain.
The birth of a single American baby kicks off a lifetime of excess consumption that few on earth can match....especially those of us in the middle and upper classes.
We tread heavily on the world as much as we can and then a few play Hamlet and wonder aloud of the impact.
The damage caused by this fact of demography is universal and reaches into and affect the entire world.
We are America and claim proprietary rights to anything of value...anything we can pay for.
Of a thousands heavy impacts we drive, support and sustain, reefkeeping is a pretty lightweight one.
If its therefore the principal of treading lightly on the earth you mean...then by all means, lets seperate that from the notion of concern for the tropical worlds coral reefs. Places few reefers have ever seen or understood. Places populated by people few reefers have ever met or understood.
If you asked the people who live on the reefs you want to save...what do you think they would say?
If you want to save their reefs in spite of them and without them...then what are the chances of success?
Can Japanese eco-folks come here and save our reefs in the Florida Keys without our serious and central involvement?
Seperating well intentioned environmental musings from its social/cultural setting is very 'American...authoritarian and patronizing. Its also ineffective.
Give reefs value. Let local people work...involve them...Buy wildcaught...and support teaching better management and training of people to protect their own heritage. Support businesses that are friendly enough and fair enough to the locals to influence their behavior for the better.
Don't run away. Stay and put your consumerism behind the good guys....though few they may be.
Steve
Dustin1231
New member
wow, good answer.
I think that this is a good topic to discuss and debate despite the disagreement each of us might have. I deal with sustainability of species and life on earth as part of my education and it has made me aware of many things. Unless we kill off a couple of billion people and go back to the caves anything we do will affect the environment. That being said I think that reefkeeping has made me more responsible as a person. I only have a 20 gallon tank but it has educated me and countless other people and kids in my apartment complex about coral reefs and importance of preserving them.
If one takes an effort it is possible to create a "zero" impact reef tank. Talking reef has a podcast on this subject which inspired me to thing deeper and see how much of things that go into a tank can be aquacultured or captive raised. By using energy efficient T-5 lights, aquacultured live rock and sand and frags from other reefers one can get pretty close to a zero impact reef. The challenge is still with fish. There is limited choice but it getting better. So I think its a start for everyone.
My 2 cents.
clear skies
Vishnu
If one takes an effort it is possible to create a "zero" impact reef tank. Talking reef has a podcast on this subject which inspired me to thing deeper and see how much of things that go into a tank can be aquacultured or captive raised. By using energy efficient T-5 lights, aquacultured live rock and sand and frags from other reefers one can get pretty close to a zero impact reef. The challenge is still with fish. There is limited choice but it getting better. So I think its a start for everyone.
My 2 cents.
clear skies
Vishnu
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