Richard - Can't afford it, what do you suggest?

[Myka]

Hi Richard,

I figured I would make a post out of this instead of PMing you because I have noticed there are a fair amount of fellow reefer gonna-bes hanging out here who are in LOVE with your LR, but we just can't afford your "Package". Could you suggest something to help us out. We would really like to have your rock in our tanks!

Oh hey, un question pour toi, in "The Package" do you use "decorator rock", "corals on rock", "live base rock", or a combination? Please explain.

What I am thinking of doing is buying 75% dry dead base rock and using 25% of your LIVE rock. Using 90% Southdown sand, and 10% of your live sand. I want to do a DSB, I don't believe your sand should make up a large percentage then, as I think your sand isn't fine enough? I know the cycling will take significantly longer and my tank won't look like Wooglin's for quite some time. Is this a good idea?


Mindy (student who also has other money-gobbling hobbies)

 

[Laura Moon]

Mindy,

I would suggest exactly what you've mentioned above. Assuming this will be for the 55, I would do base rock and SD sand, then get maybe the 20g or 30g package to get all the live stuff. I used 30lbs kaelini and 50lbs SD in my 46g, then added 30lbs of TBS rock. It almost works out better this way, because in stacking the rocks, you don't have to worry about covering up some living creature. Just put all the TBS on top of the other rocks.

 

[we_want_Nemo]

Whatever you decide on Mindy, I wish you all the luck for you tank.
My husband and I saved for over 1/2 year only for the package (55 Gallon)
The day we finally ordered it ... was like Christmas

I just know, that you will be absolutely amazed and happy with your TBS rock ... you just can't beat the live and color on it.

Manuela

 

[Dazz]

There are plus sides and down sides to your plan.

Yes it would be an inexpensive way to get some great rock. However, once you see the TBS, you will wish you could have gotten the whole tank full of it .

Anyway, it's a good idea. I have noticed that in just 4 months of having my TBS, there are many new sponges growing on the acrillic in my HOB skimmer/refuge so, there is at least some hope that your base rock will be populated with a few things from the TBS. I also have found a new yellow sponge (which has been said to be basically impossible to keep) which has grown where there was none before on the TBS. So you never know, you might find after a year your other rocks looking pretty good.

 

[Myka]

Thank you all for your advice! I know once I get it I will have wished that all m rock is TBS rock, BUT I am only 21 and I cannot justify spending a thousand dollars on a hobby right now. I need an education, and some stability first. In five years time, maybe then I will have the choice. Right now I have to make the best with what I can have.

I am also doing all this VERY slowly. I am going to do as much as I can DIY. As this point, the only "traditional" equipment I am going to buy it the heater and the tank itself. The stand, canopy, lighting, skimmer, sump, refugium, plumbing I am building all myself. I was even considering doing all my base rock from Agracrete, but I have found a source for C$2/lb, so I may as well use it. I am getting "educated" as a carpenter, so I should have no problems with all this as it's fairly basic.

I like the idea of purchasing a 30 gallon (or other size) package instead of putting one together myself, but regarding the TBS critters, are hermit crabs (of any species) neccessary? I hate them... Also, I am planning on using a DSB at this point, and I don't believe the critters used in "The Package" are designed for a DSB. Am I correct? For this reason, I am thinking I will pick out my own "style" of package to suit my needs. Buying a critter package that will suit a DSB.

I have also taken a lot of information on DSBs, and the opinion is varied. It seems like those who like it, love it. Those who don't like it, hate it. Is it really something that a fairly newbie should avoid? Maybe I should just stick with a 1.5-2.5" SD sandbed?

Any more suggestions? Richard?

Mindy

 

[Dazz]

well, the hermits help in many ways. They eat detritus and alge and anything that might die in there (very handy). You can seed a DSB with TBS if you want. Infact it will be a very well populated DSB if you do. I personally am going to go with a DSB only in my refuge/sump, and not in my display. Only you can decide on how you want to do it . There are enough people keeping tanks sucessfully with a DSB and tanks with only 1.5"-2" so either way your tank will work.

 

[Myka]

I've just read that the hermits (especially in the noxious numbers that TBS sends in their package) can have a detrimental effect in that they are TOO efficient and eat a lot of stuff that we would like in our reefs.

Even though I know there are more dangerous little guys in our reefs, I was bit/pinched by a hermit many years ago that didn't let go for an hour, and now I do all but refuse to be near them. I hate the little creeps...

Do I have to have them? Can't something else do their job?

Mindy

 

[hdtran]

Mindy,

The hermits in the TBS package are blue-legged hermits, with pretty small claws, not like land-hermits. On a personal basis, I agree with you that I'd rather have more snails and fewer hermits, but that's the 'formula' that TBS came up with, and it seems to work for them.

That said, I have an undersized package, and I have a Jaubert plenum setup (talk about antediluvian ), with several inches of aragonite substrate mixed in with the TBS live sand. So far, no problems at all; the critters (including one uncaught mantis) are deep-substrate diving in the mixed sand.

 

[delta]

i would second Hy s plan on the sand you would be better off with a substrate of the similar size and make up, southdown is fine granular and white unlike TBS sand which is crushed shells and coral. other than that you should be fine dried base rock as you call it to build on is a good idea and only costs about $45.00 per 50lbs plus shipping and as a matter of fact is basically the same stuff TBS drops on the ocean floor.

Hope to see your tank here soon

goodluck

 

[kp1917]

Much more of this ammonia in my tank and I'll have some pretty looking base rock to give you.....plus shipping of course.

KP

 

[Myka]

Hy, thanks for your input. I think that's what I'm going to do is just buy a smaller package. If they are tiny hermits (and stay that way!) then I think I can deal with them. I guess everything's got it's place.

delta: $45 for 50lbs? I was looking at some that was C$2 a lb. I think that's about as cheap as I'm going to find it here in Canada.

kp1917: Why wouldn't you just add some decorator live rock to your existing rock once the cycle is over? No sense in starting all over again.

Mindy

PS: Still like to here Richard's point of view.

 

[kp1917]

Two lines of thought here.

1st - The first shipment I received is sooooo cool that lifeless or mostly lifeless base rock to me seems like a waste of space.

2nd - Someone previously touched on this one: There is so much good stuff on it, as I was looking at it last night, I don't want to cover/smoother the stuff up when it's done cycling, so maybe base rock is ok if you cover it up with the real good stuff.

Signed,

Confused

 

[liverock]

Think small

Think small

Hy, thanks for your input. I think that's what I'm going to do is just buy a smaller package. If they are tiny hermits (and stay that way!) then I think I can deal with them. I guess everything's got it's place.

delta: $45 for 50lbs? I was looking at some that was C$2 a lb. I think that's about as cheap as I'm going to find it here in Canada.

kp1917: Why wouldn't you just add some decorator live rock to your existing rock once the cycle is over? No sense in starting all over again.

Mindy

PS: Still like to here Richard's point of view.

I can put 500-750 BL hermits in the palm of my hand....

Folks have a vision of big crabs.....these guys are tiny...3/8 of an inch is a big one.

They have a purpose, they eat where nobody else can, is a hair algea prevenative....without them there will be too much stuff you don't want in your tank.
They do not stay tiny, but they also only live a few years, a big one is the size of one of our astrea snails sive, about dime size...

Thanks
Richard TBS
www.tbsaltwater.com

 

[delta]

Myka,

sorry i missed the canada part my bad

 

[PRC]

I'd agree with Laura that a 20 or 30G package should give you a good start if that's all you can afford for now. I actually had quite a bit of rock leftover when I was done aquascaping, probably about 80# worth.
Here's my take on the hermits FWIW. I've got a TBS package in my 220 which meant 440 hermits. I was imagining dozens of bags filled with the critters, but all 440 of them came in two or three small bags. They are pretty tiny (and Richard has big hands ).
That said, they can definitely be a nuisance. They often try to steal food from my corals when the corals are eating. I've discovered, though, that many times the corals seem more annoyed by me removing the hermits than they are by the hermits themselves.
On the plus side I've never had any algae problems in the main tank (I do have a fair amount of algae, both good and bad kinds, in my refugium), though this might also be attributed to different waterflows, lighting, etc.. I don't think they have much impact on pod populations since I have tons of pods all over the place. There are no more pods in my refugium, where I have very few hermits, than there are in the main tank.
Also they can be very entertaining in a three stooges sort of way. Maybe laughing at the little hooligans could help you get over that hermitphobia .

 

[Myka]

Maybe laughing at the little hooligans could help you get over that hermitphobia .

Well, considering they're small, maybe I can handle it. Sigh...

Mindy